Leveling an outdated concept and bad for content

[Deleted]

Massively Multiplayer

Just because it's massively multiplayer doesn't mean you can't take a break from the multiplayer and play solo. Despite the MM in MMORPG the majority of WoWs content outside of instances is in fact solo content.

[badzerath]

Most quests - solo content
Old Dungeons and raids - solo content
Half hill farm - phased solo content
Garrisons (coming soon) - phased solo content
Mini games - solo content
Pet battles - can be solo content unless battling other players

Please continue with how MMOs should not have any solo content...

Let me fix this list for you:

Quests - only thing on this list I do out of necessity to reach max level
Old raids - for people to farm xmog gear (it's not challenging)
Half hill farm - http://zynga.com/game/farmville-two (NOW IN 3d!)
Garrisons - http://www.simcity.com/
Mini games - http://www.addictinggames.com/
pet battles - go play pokemon on a gameboy?

I didn't say WoW shouldn't have solo content. There are things like brawler's guild and proving grounds which can actually improve your play - AND are solo content that's challenging!

Im asking why in the world you pay a 15 dollar sub fee for an overpriced version of farmville, pokemon, and minigames.

[Deleted]

Just because it's massively multiplayer doesn't mean you can't take a break from the multiplayer and play solo. Despite the MM in MMORPG the majority of WoWs content outside of instances is in fact solo content.

Fair enough, but the in the end the main focus of the game is multiplayer content. The Solo stuff is there, but its rightly never going to be anything more than a sideshow in an MMO.

Mini-vans seat 8 but usually only have 1 person in them. Not sure how the broad genre definition fits into the type of content being requested.

I really don't see how that analogy works. Are you implying that MMOs are supposed to be about solo content?

[badzerath]

Why would a single man buy a minivan?!

[Giscoicus]

Just because it's massively multiplayer doesn't mean you can't take a break from the multiplayer and play solo. Despite the MM in MMORPG the majority of WoWs content outside of instances is in fact solo content.

But encouraging solo play is bad for multiplayer content. If you can get good gear solo, multiplayer content will be less appealing. Multiplayer always needs to be the best stuff.

Look what happened when 10 and 25M raids dropped the same stuff. Takes more to do 25M, so many went to 10M. If you could get raid quality gear or content alone, nobody would do group stuff.

[-Superman-]

Fair enough, but the in the end the main focus of the game is multiplayer content. The Solo stuff is there, but its rightly never going to be anything more than a sideshow in an MMO.



I really don't see how that analogy works. Are you implying that MMOs are supposed to be about solo content?

Never said it wasn't. I was simply implying asking for some solo content does not break the entire game. It just provides additional options. As far as the minivan goes, it was an analogy that it may be designed for 8 people, but its ONLY purpose is not just 8 people. It can carry 1-8 people, a couple people and some dogs, one guy and a ton of boxes, two girls and 12 televisions, etc. Do not pigeonhole the game to a certain standard just because it happens to be an MMO.

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But encouraging solo play is bad for multiplayer content. If you can get good gear solo, multiplayer content will be less appealing. Multiplayer always needs to be the best stuff.

Look what happened when 10 and 25M raids dropped the same stuff. Takes more to do 25M, so many went to 10M. If you could get raid quality gear or content alone, nobody would do group stuff.

He is not talking about Raids. You could solo your dailies and get geared to raid. We are looking for similar options. Something that allows you to solo and work on what you want to. Raiding (current content) will almost always require a group.

[Sithalos]

*Sigh*

Why do people want to dumb this game down even more? If you don't have the time to level your characters, you shouldn't be playing an MMORPG.

[Deleted]

Since even Blizzard now accepted that "leveling phase is annoying, let's give a free level 90 and make it even quicker" let's go one step further. Games like Everquest Next will do it, but for the expansion after WoD Blizzard could also do the same. Remove Levels. I already hear you scream: "Whaat? How can people learn to play their character?" "But I like doing quests and progressing from one area to another". Calm down - both still can be done.

If you start a new character in that new system it will be like starting a Deathknight today. You will get your skills one after another doing certain quests. So you still visit areas and travel the land.

BUT after you have all your skills all the old areas will not be abandoned and useless. Since there are no levels they can do dailys and exploring and Timeless Island like content EVERYWHERE. You love ice and snow, only play in Winterspring or Northrend. You hate snow and love the tropics? Go to Stranglethorn or Un'Goro. You prefer Pandaria, stay there...

The whole world and not just the maxium level zones will be your playground. It offers so much more for both, players and developers. You can place hidden treasures, add random events all over the place and so on. You still progress with your gear, you still get stronger with your gear but you would not craft useless gear only good for a small level frame. Raremobs will not drop loot only good for 2-3 levels.

Think about it, I think this is the way to go in the future. Sorry for my bad english (not my native language).

id like that idea. just make that like a "class intro questline", you "level approx 15 lvls wehere you get your skills, linked to questaims and you maybe even learn why you got that damn sklill for ^^

i know many games, where leveling is still present though, but much less long. i think leveling, due to the numerous addons got a bit ... long distance aim. (esp for those without hairlooms and such)

i reallyl ike your idea. post it in the blizz forums and link it to here so whe can support it.

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*Sigh*

Why do people want to dumb this game down even more? If you don't have the time to level your characters, you shouldn't be playing an MMORPG.

you say that as if leveling was challenging and fun ... its not. leveling a char by oneshooting mobs, collecting over and over x pieces of whatever and the heads of namedmob here, its already most dumbed down thing as it is. leveling is dumb, removing dumb leveling process and converting it into a class introduction questline would be extending the game, not dumbing it.

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But encouraging solo play is bad for multiplayer content. If you can get good gear solo, multiplayer content will be less appealing. Multiplayer always needs to be the best stuff.

Look what happened when 10 and 25M raids dropped the same stuff. Takes more to do 25M, so many went to 10M. If you could get raid quality gear or content alone, nobody would do group stuff.

if multiplayer only exists, by forcing playersi nto it, or not letting them solo in online games, then ... isnt mmo dead already?

[Tekkommo]

I like levelling, I think we just need more levelling routes.

I always enjoy my first 1 or 2 chars, it's after that, repeating the same quests over and over is really boring. We need more than 1 starting area and more than one zone for each level. How 1-60 is.

It also needs to be more challenging, it's easy to level in WoW while half afk'ing watching TV etc. you can't do that in other MMOs without dying a fair bit, even when you get into trouble in WoW, it's easy not to die and save yourself.

When it's a mindless zerg with no thought, it is indeed pointless.

[Frozenbeef]

Leveling in a new expansion is the thing i enjoy the most 0o Once you hit max it's just about finding things to keep you entertained

[Deleted]

People in this thread seem to think that if you replaced levelling with some other progression system that would remove the problem of progression being boring. It wouldn't.

Bad progression is always boring, the issue is how to make levelling funand engaging. Blizzard tried with mixed results in Cataclysm to fix levelling. What they're doing no I suspect won't work, because people will just start complaining about the next progression wall they hit. First they'll want instant max level, then gear so they can skip heroic dungeons, then raiding gear so they can raid the expansion end boss from the get go.

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if multiplayer only exists, by forcing playersi nto it, or not letting them solo in online games, then ... isnt mmo dead already?

Clearly it seems.

[Steampunk]

I think an alternate leveling solution; like how the DK starting area slowly eased in your abilities and original talents... would be nice for people who have experienced all the content a few times. That repetition when you want to try out a new raid alt, or have another PvP'er for Arena, etc. can be monotonous. Even with Cata's revamp of the world, that will eventually run thin.

Meh, I like leveling... I like levels - I'm a fan of D&D from ages old, sue me.

I'm a storyteller for Pathfinder and D&D 3E!

[Mirishka]

Leveling is a joke nowadays. I'm 2 and a half levels from 90 on a tank alt I made on a whim like.. 5 days ago.

Also, I don't think leveling needs to go away. But perhaps each max level toon reduces the exp needed for alts, up to a certain point?

For instance:

1 level 90: exp needed to level to 90 reduced by 10%.

2 level 90s: exp needed to level to 90 reduced by 20%.

Etc etc. Each level capped toon makes the next alt that much less painful.

[Deleted]

does noone see a new max level char as a kind of archievment? you want a new class to raid with?...-> go and bring it up!

wow gets boring because everything you can do in this game gets easier and "cheeper".

wanna have epix? go to lala island...

wanna see end game contend? put on the stuff from the island and push a button...

wanna see endgame contend from a diffrent view? push the other button, go to the island again, take on the stuff you found and have fun?!?!

[Azgraal]

No. Role playing is about playing a role while becoming more powerful. Levels don't have to be the mechanic to do so. Look at Elder Scrolls games. You level up from actually performing your actions. The more spells you cast, the stronger you get at it. The more you shoot people with a bow, the better you get (yes I know it has levels as well, but we could remove those and still have the same effect).

We had those in the earlier versions of the game, and blizzard removed them (i proudly have the "knuckle sandwich" FoS ^^)

[Annoying]

So you want the game to be a different type of game for every person the plays it? Holy shit dude I am glad you aren't a game developer, pick a type of game! Obviously not an MMORPG but pick something!

That's pretty funny. Lemme throw some words at you: Pokemon, farmville, plants vs zombies, solo scenarios, shared tags, removal of group quests.

See something there? This game has slowly devolved from an MMORPG to an ORPG. It's so chock full of solo-friendly content at this point, that the only thing holding it up the "MM" is raiding, dungeons, and pvp. Half of which (random queues) aren't very "MM". Blizzard has already turned this game into a different type of game for every person that plays it. Pvp has its own stats, pet battles have nothing to do with anything else (nor does any other minigame). Talk about "pick something".

[XDurionX]

Those games you talk about exist since the dawn of video games. It´s a whole genre called "action".

Experience and leveling is THE integral part of RPGs. Leave it alone and change the genre if you don´t like it.

[markdall]

Or they could use phasing to enable both - level if you want, or pop 90 if you want. Hit level 90 = every zone phases in the timeless isle version of itself.

Difficulty - 90s can no longer gank lower levels.

Solution: Leveling phases you every 10 levels. Sorry gankers, now you HAVE to pick on someone near your level.

Extra credit: Grouping with lower levels lets you play with them BUT scales your gear way down.

[Kryos]

id like that idea. just make that like a "class intro questline", you "level approx 15 lvls wehere you get your skills, linked to questaims and you maybe even learn why you got that damn sklill for ^^

i know many games, where leveling is still present though, but much less long. i think leveling, due to the numerous addons got a bit ... long distance aim. (esp for those without hairlooms and such)

i reallyl ike your idea. post it in the blizz forums and link it to here so whe can support it.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8882749251

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Leveling in a new expansion is the thing i enjoy the most 0o Once you hit max it's just about finding things to keep you entertained

And my concept would make it the other way round. Seems to be hard to understand. Every zone ever created in the game will become endcontent and you start at endcontent. Casuals will have so much content and so much to explore like they never had before. The people will not flock in one space like sheep they can go where they want and every zone will have interesting and relevant quests with loot for your spec and profession. Way better than today.

[XDurionX]

And my concept would make it the other way round. Seems to be hard to understand. Every zone ever created in the game will become endcontent and you start at endcontent. Casuals will have so much content and so much to explore like they never had before. The people will not flock in one space like sheep they can go where they want and every zone will have interesting and relevant quests with loot for your spec and profession. Way better than today.

You´re just not making all zones relevant. You just remove any incentive to go there AT ALL. If i want to see the story of, let´s say Feralas, i can still go there at L 78. But just artificially stretching it to make the fights longer will surely make it more interesting. Except that it doesnt.

No, no, just no.

And i like different progression systems like in the first two Dungeon Siege games or in Skyrim as well, but - you guessed it - they´re also based on XP and levels, just split up more or less. This ist the defining principle of RPGs. There are lots of other games the do´nt have this kind of progression, play them, and let RPGs be what RPGs are.