[RESTO] anyone tried going past 13k hbp with SOTF spec ?

[Deleted]

Hello Everyone !!! :3

I was wondering if anyone have gone the 13k hbp to see if it will benefit in your overall hps while u are using SOTF ?

atm im trying out the 16,8k hbp, 24,6% mastery unbuff and 12,8k spirit too see if its any good.... atm im doing around 190-200k hps in HC SoO 10M with 3 healers (keep in mind that its without legendary cape and im always the top healer both with total healing done and hps) im gonna go for the 19,6k hbp today and try it out today when I get my legendary cape.... I wont lose that much mastery on it but ill propely be around 29,5-21% mastery tho.... and yeah I know normally going past the 13k hbp wont be any good.... but i've been tailoring my gear and rotation around SOTF..... so was just wondering if anyone else have been trying it out or had any calc. on it

so tell me about your experience on it :3

[Deleted]

hmm i'm 2 healing 10 nhc, and normally i'm around 160k hps i'm at the 13k hbp and I use SOTF mostly with wild growth on group healing and occasionally with rejuv on the tank. Your spirit would be too low for my taste i'm between 14-15k most of the time since thats the level I am comfortable with, for spamming rejuvs to genesis on garrosh whirlwind for example. Haven't really tried going above 13k since the gains are relatively small as far as i remember even with SOTF gameplay. But if you tried it out tell me about it Curious if it works.

[Thalur]

I was wondering if anyone have gone the 13k hbp to see if it will benefit in your overall hps while u are using SOTF ?

Now let's see what you get by going from 13k to 16.8k haste breakpoint:
+ 10% for Sotf-WG (2 additional ticks, 19 -> 21)
+ Slightly faster ticks for Efflo and Lifebloom

What do you lose? Those 3.7k mastery would give you:
- Roughly 5% (depending on mastery) more for all heals except bloom.

Summing up, I would guess you lose about 4-5% overall healing with the 16.8k breakpoint. The 19.6k one will be even worse.

As a side node, HPS numbers for boss fights don't say anything because other factors are much more important than your performance. For heroic Thok (stack tactics) you need about 500k burst and 300k sustained HPS, but that's the only boss where you can actually heal that much. If you want to try this because you want to sniper more heals, maybe you should consider dropping a healer. Most bosses can be two-healed in 10 hc.

[Deleted]

What do you lose? Those 3.7k mastery would give you:
- Roughly 5% (depending on mastery) more for all heals except bloom.

I wont be near losing that much mastery tho since im gonna use 2 AMP trinkets :3 and yeah thats gain in spirit,haste, mastery and critical healing done :3

so % mastery wise I wont be dipping 2 low on that

[Zeons]

I two healed HC Thok and ranked first in the world using the 13K hbp build (343k hps). Additional haste seems unecessary to me as you can't get the extra rejuvenation tick (23k hpb) and you lose a lot of mastery/spirit in the process.

[Thalur]

I wont be near losing that much mastery tho since im gonna use 2 AMP trinkets :3 and yeah thats gain in spirit,haste, mastery and critical healing done :3

so % mastery wise I wont be dipping 2 low on that

That's bullshit. You get your haste from mastery and from nothing else. (If you run with less spirit now, why did you have too much spirit before? That makes no sense at all.)

For low levels of haste things can be different, but from 13k to 16k haste you only lose mastery. If you change your spirit (to get to a breakpoint), you are doing something wrong in general. And if you think the second amp trinket is better than its alternatives (hint: it's not), why didn't you use it before?
Seriously you should think about what you're doing before posting here.

[Deleted]

That's bullshit. You get your haste from mastery and from nothing else. (If you run with less spirit now, why did you have too much spirit before? That makes no sense at all.)

For low levels of haste things can be different, but from 13k to 16k haste you only lose mastery. If you change your spirit (to get to a breakpoint), you are doing something wrong in general. And if you think the second amp trinket is better than its alternatives (hint: it's not), why didn't you use it before?
Seriously you should think about what you're doing before posting here.

not rly bullshit >_> I get the extra haste from reforging spirit -> haste on mastery gear and also gem for haste..... and the reason for me not using the other AMP trinket before was that I didn't need 2 use it to get into a hbp.... and yeah I had too much spirit... have 17-18k spirit is rly overkill unless u spam regrowth all the time... but as I wrote I use the SOTF talent so its actually easier for me to maintain an ok mana regen even with reforging down to around 13k spirit.... plus the question wasn't rly about if I lose 2 much mastery on it... it was more about if anyone have tried it and their xp on it while u use the SOTF talent....

[ryklin]

ok so dude, basically we go for 13k haste because that's where the tranq and rejuv benefit from haste, I mean technically you can go for haste to any amount, but it won't totally be worth it due to rejuv not scaling with it, 13k is also fairly close to the 12.5k bp for normal WG, which you'll still be casting

technically you are losing out some, as the closest SotF WG breakpoint fortunately, this means that only like 6-8% of your healing is getting wasted haste scaling, and even then it's only about 2k

at 16.8k, you'll have about 4.5k wasted haste on your normal wild growths (which are still half of your WGs) (about 4-6ish% of your healing), and about 3.5-4k wasted stats that won't be affecting your rejuvs and tranqs (should be a 3rd of your healing between the 2, more or less, depending on the fight)

so basically, you're decreasing most of your healing strength in exchange for pretty 2 extra 5-7k ticks on 5-6 targets once every 15-20 seconds depending on whether or not you have WG glyph, but that's not worth the resulting about 5-7% healing decrease traded off for it on almost half your healing done (basically your idea loses you 2.5%-3.5% healing done)

I mean 13.9k wouldn't be too unreasonable, although your other heals would be slightly gimped by about 1-2% decrease of half your healing for an extra 5-7k tick every 15 to 20 seconds so this breakpoint is just barely not even, but you could still roll it with a minor loss of about 1% healing done tops if you really like the extra 60k-ish or whatever it is 3 times a minute

TL;DR: The SotF half of WG is only about 6-8% of your healing done on any given fight, and it's not enough of our healing to be worth sacrificing our other heals to empower it so people are over-reacting as to why you'd want to do this.
Taking haste past a rejuv breakpoint results in a healing loss compared to moving the haste to mastery or crit or even spirit due to any other stat pulling better as rejuv is so much of our healing.

Side Note: SotF is a minor healing increase every 15-25s (depending on glyph and skill with using it) and with timers on every fight this tier (other than full sustained damage fights), it will look way better on paper than it performs, and also by taking a different talent you'll have many less wasted stats and won't feel trapped by SotF, and there's quite few fights this tier that tree form rocks (protectors, IJ, malk if you aren't solo-tanking) and treants do surprisingly well in garrosh's empowered whirls (at least in normal) and on nazgrim because of the add timer

[Deleted]

ok so dude, basically we go for 13k haste because that's where the tranq and rejuv benefit from haste, I mean technically you can go for haste to any amount, but it won't totally be worth it due to rejuv not scaling with it, 13k is also fairly close to the 12.5k bp for normal WG, which you'll still be casting

technically you are losing out some, as the closest SotF WG breakpoint fortunately, this means that only like 6-8% of your healing is getting wasted haste scaling, and even then it's only about 2k

at 16.8k, you'll have about 4.5k wasted haste on your normal wild growths (which are still half of your WGs) (about 4-6ish% of your healing), and about 3.5-4k wasted stats that won't be affecting your rejuvs and tranqs (should be a 3rd of your healing between the 2, more or less, depending on the fight)

so basically, you're decreasing most of your healing strength in exchange for pretty 2 extra 5-7k ticks on 5-6 targets once every 15-20 seconds depending on whether or not you have WG glyph, but that's not worth the resulting about 5-7% healing decrease traded off for it on almost half your healing done (basically your idea loses you 2.5%-3.5% healing done)

I mean 13.9k wouldn't be too unreasonable, although your other heals would be slightly gimped by about 1-2% decrease of half your healing for an extra 5-7k tick every 15 to 20 seconds so this breakpoint is just barely not even, but you could still roll it with a minor loss of about 1% healing done tops if you really like the extra 60k-ish or whatever it is 3 times a minute

TL;DR: The SotF half of WG is only about 6-8% of your healing done on any given fight, and it's not enough of our healing to be worth sacrificing our other heals to empower it so people are over-reacting as to why you'd want to do this.
Taking haste past a rejuv breakpoint results in a healing loss compared to moving the haste to mastery or crit or even spirit due to any other stat pulling better as rejuv is so much of our healing.

Side Note: SotF is a minor healing increase every 15-25s (depending on glyph and skill with using it) and with timers on every fight this tier (other than full sustained damage fights), it will look way better on paper than it performs, and also by taking a different talent you'll have many less wasted stats and won't feel trapped by SotF, and there's quite few fights this tier that tree form rocks (protectors, IJ, malk if you aren't solo-tanking) and treants do surprisingly well in garrosh's empowered whirls (at least in normal) and on nazgrim because of the add timer

ty very much dude :3 it was this kind of contructive answer I was looking for :P but either way :P just gonna try it out for funsies then :3 gotta love having faster casting speed :P plus I dont rly feel tied down on only using the SOTF buff on WG tho since I use it on everything else also :P only using it on WG is the raids need healing otherwise I use normal while using the SOTF on LB or reju or even tranq xD it rly depends on what's needed but atm my guild and me are progressing in HC SoO and my mana and healing situation aren't bad tho...

[theburned]

Technically you are losing out some, as the closest SotF WG breakpoint fortunately, this means that only like 6-8% of your healing is getting wasted haste scaling, and even then it's only about 2k

at 16.8k, you'll have about 3.6k wasted haste on your normal wild growths (which are still half of your WGs) (about 4-6ish% of your healing), and about 3.5k wasted stats that won't be affecting your rejuvs and tranqsAs much (should be a 3rd of your healing between the 2, more or less, depending on the fight)

so basically, you're decreasing most of your healing strength in exchange for pretty 2 extra 5-7k ticks on 5-6 targets once every 15-20 seconds depending on whether or not you have WG glyph, but that's not worth the resulting about 5-7% healing decrease traded off for it on almost half your healing done (basically your idea loses you 2.5%-3.5% healing done)

I mean 13.9k wouldn't be too unreasonable, although your other heals would be slightly gimped by about 1-2% decrease of half your healing for an extra 5-7k tick every 15 to 20 seconds so this breakpoint is just barely not even, but you could still roll it with a minor loss of about 1% healing done tops if you really like the extra 60k-ish or whatever it is 3 times a minute

TL;DR: The SotF half of WG is only about 6-8% Mine does around 18-20% especially on fights like norushen.of your healing done on any given fight, and it's not enough of our healing to be worth sacrificing our other heals to empower it so people are over-reacting as to why you'd want to do this.
Taking haste past a rejuv breakpoint results in a healing loss compared to moving the haste to mastery or crit or even spirit due to any other stat pulling better as rejuv is so much of our healing.

Side Note: SotF is a minor healing increase every 15-20s (depending on glyph and skill with using it) and with timers on every fight this tier (other than full sustained damage fights), it will look way better on paper than it performs, and also by taking a different talent you'll have many less wasted stats and won't feel trapped by SotF, and there's quite few fights this tier that tree form rocks (protectors, IJ, malk if you aren't solo-tanking) and treants do surprisingly well in garrosh's empowered whirls (at least in normal) and on nazgrim because of the add timer, also incredibly nice on thok hc. Personally it's the only fight I use it for, have been a fan of SotF since MoP came out, sadly havent been able to use it too much.

To OP:
So I have been a fan of SotF, but I believe there is no reason to get the haste breakpoints for it, played around a lot with the previous breakpoint at 5k+ and well didn't get any favorable results, why is because you are adding a few ticks to a spell where each additional tick does less, so you end up with increasing it by less than 10% by adding 2 ticks, which costs you 3.7k haste. Though on the other side I like the haste stat while it will increase your mana usage, it won't increase the strength of your heals, but currently I feel like we are quite heavy on the strength when it comes to heals, getting more haste might reduce our overhealing by values closer to the throughput extra that you would get from mastery eitherway.

Most people I've spoken to about the 13k haste breakpoint have pointed out the regrowth component of having high haste builds, and well while its a minor part of our healing its an important part in our utility to bring someone quickly away from low hp to medium hp, then ticking hots to full hp. The regrowth gains a lot of strength the higher the haste, and fulfills it's role better at higher haste values. Rejuvenations tick faster, they fall off faster too, but you still get some hps from it.

Efflorence is also an important part, after being nerfed to ticking once per 2 seconds rather than once per second, if you go for 16.8k and cast it during BL I am quite sure you will get around 1 tick pr second again, basically reverting a lot of the nerf.

So even though you get weaker spells your overall healing kit seems slightly more useful, though at the cost of important throughput, the question is: Can you afford to lose throughput?

[Deleted]

So even though you get weaker spells your overall healing kit seems slightly more useful, though at the cost of important throughput, the question is: Can you afford to lose throughput?

well stats wise I can easy afford it :P throughput maybe xD but yeah trying 2 figure it out xD so if someone have some more insight its welcomed :P

- - - Updated - - -

just got my legendary.... im at the cap now..... and im standing with 26 % mastery unbuff and over 14k spirit so for now everything seems 2 be ok.... gonna rock it in HC tomorrow :3

- - - Updated - - -

well atm in the raid its still going pretty nice and im not going oom.... but ofc with haste build I wont have any big heals :3

[Glurp]

Taking SotF has no impact on what Haste Breakpoint you should go for. Technically taking SotF makes Haste breakpoints less meaningful because the gained ticks from the breakpoint are a lower percentage of total ticks with SotF.

[Deleted]

Taking SotF has no impact on what Haste Breakpoint you should go for.

it rly has xD since SOTF hbp and normal hbp doesn't have the same hbp

[Glurp]

it rly has xD since SOTF hbp and normal hbp doesn't have the same hbp

No. SotF is only active for 1 cast every 15 seconds. You go for the same Haste level regardless of SotF.

[Deleted]

No. SotF is only active for 1 cast every 15 seconds. You go for the same Haste level regardless of SotF.

sry m8 xD but u rly dont know what u are talking about xD go to askmrrobot and make a druid resto and adjust the haste cap with SOTF and u will see some magic :3

askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/druidrestoration

there u go :3 now just select edit weights and go and select your haste cap with SOTF

[Glurp]

sry m8 xD but u rly dont know what u are talking about xD go to askmrrobot and make a druid resto and adjust the haste cap with SOTF and u will see some magic :3

askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/druidrestoration

there u go :3 now just select edit weights and go and select your haste cap with SOTF

Your going to be basing your breakpoint on roughly 5% of your casts during a fight and gimping yourself on the other 95%. Terrible idea. I'm not saying SotF doesn't effect breakpoints, I am saying it doesn't effect which breakpoint you go for.

[Deleted]

Your going to be basing your breakpoint on roughly 5% of your casts during a fight and gimping yourself on the other 95%. Terrible idea. I'm not saying SotF doesn't effect breakpoints, I am saying it doesn't effect which breakpoint you go for.

well that rly depends on your rotation of spells.... with mine it more like 95% SOTF and 5% without..... since its used for spells that roughly stays on the targets for 10-15 secs which would mean a new SOTF spell would be rdy 2 be cast....

[Deleted]

I have a really difficult time reading the posts of kakashi2300. And why do you have to randomly type "xD" between words?

[Zeons]

well that rly depends on your rotation of spells.... with mine it more like 95% SOTF and 5% without..... since its used for spells that roughly stays on the targets for 10-15 secs which would mean a new SOTF spell would be rdy 2 be cast....

Are you stating that 95% of your heals are affected by SOTF? Feel free to go for those hbps but all you are doing is hindering your guild's progression.

[Deleted]

Are you stating that 95% of your heals are affected by SOTF? Feel free to go for those hbps but all you are doing is hindering your guild's progression.

cant rly see how rly see how im hindering my guilds progress with getting more haste.... last night we were actually able 2 go with 2 healers instead of 3 man heals since my HoTs was able 2 heal up ppl faster......

and yeah im stating that about 90-95% of my heals is affected by SOTF if u dont take efflorrence in the consindering since its only the extra haste and not the SOTF itself that have an effect on that.... WG and reju should be your top heals beside efflorrence... and u easy have the time 2 place SOTF with those spells.... but yeah ofc I dont know how your rotation is but I hope for yourself that it isn't spamming regrowth everywhere :3

but yeah as stated in the first post the thread was more about if ppl had any xp or theory on going past the 13k hbp.... and u've said is that u would lose spirit and mastery on going that far :P but as for now i've actually gained at those parts :3