Direct damage needs to be nerfed.

[Saurus]

Fireball- along with pretty much all direct damage needs to be heavily nerfed. It's just too easy and it's impossible to counter.

Far too many Mage decks based on "win by turn 8" - simply by direct damage.

This in combo with Freeze mechanic (for just delay) needs to be reworked. There's just aren't enough counters in the game to handle magic. E.g that fact that divine shield doesn't stop this is silly. Freeze/Flamestrike until Pyroblast gg. Braindead.

All you can do is hope to outheal - or play a very heavy weapon based deck.

[Deleted]

it's impossible to counter.

you can outheal - or play a very heavy weapon based deck.

Seems to me you have the solution to your problem right there

[Deleted]

Seems to me you have the solution to your problem right there

Lol, why did you delete words in his sentence in your quote ? Ignorant troll.

Don't insult other users, don't call other users trolls, and keep your posting useful.

[Saurus]

Seems to me you have the solution to your problem right there

you didn't even quote me correctly.

[Azutael]

You should also not forget that you can utilize silence to your advantage with frozen minions.
It might not help much, but it could be the difference between a win or loss.

All you really can do is hope you got enough pressure to keep them attacking your minions instead of you, or have an absurd amount of heals and try to outlast them.
Which have worked at times for me, depends on how much they focus on me compared to minions.

[Nilinor]

if you see to many of that kinda deck, play an aggro deck, even with the freeze,flamestrike, blizzard, if all your guys have charge it wont matter. Follow up with big beefies where they have to waste their spells to kill them, instead of you.

There are WAY tons of counters to this, just think outside the box on creation..


Besides all else, ITS BETA!! THIS ISNT FINAL GAME

The only thing I dont like is the MC nerf, I see why its needed, but its either MC, or heal, and sometimes that makes me lose. Yes 10 turns lets people have their big guy out, but we miss a heal because we have to use all our mana to MC, and its not worth it unless we were winning anyways most of the time. Lost a game earlier cause I either had to MC or heal, if mc was still 8 mana, I would have lived but with the 10, not only does it take all my mana, I have to wait 10 turns to use it. I think the nerf should have been (costs 10 mana, but your next spell/ability this turn costs 2 less) that way still had to wait till turn 10, but you dont lose the 2 mana you would have used on something else

[Saurus]

You should also not forget that you can utilize silence to your advantage with frozen minions.
It might not help much, but it could be the difference between a win or loss.

All you really can do is hope you got enough pressure to keep them attacking your minions instead of you, or have an absurd amount of heals and try to outlast them.
Which have worked at times for me, depends on how much they focus on me compared to minions.

Silence is an option, but it doesn't help in the vast majority of cases.

I've tried rush decks getting swarms of 1/2 mana cards that spawn other minions, and then buffing them with raid leader - and force high pressure early. But by turn 5, flamestrike comes out and owns everything, or you have the 1 mana- illusions with taunt (hilariously op) - or blizzard (finally this was nerfed) - and I sit on turn 6/7 with no cards in hand, waiting for the +1 spelldamage minions to be played following board wipe - which leads into direct dmg, GG. no chance to stop it.

There's just not enough in the game to stop that. Taunt should work against direct damage. Divine shield should be castable on a hero. Things like this to at least give some room to do something. Because it's so predictably boring seeing the opponent stall with freeze/early board wipes, to come out by 8th turn gg.

Even playing eye for an eye, doesn't cut it.

[xskarma]

I'll allow this thread for now, cause the premise is one of direct damage (which other classes have as well) but this needs to NOT turn into another anti-Mage thread. We have another thread for that allready, right here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...this-MAGE-meta

[Saurus]

I'll allow this thread for now, cause the premise is one of direct damage (which other classes have as well) but this needs to NOT turn into another anti-Mage thread. We have another thread for that allready, right here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...this-MAGE-meta

sorry to make this more mage focussed- but it's the more obvious example to describe problem atm Which is: there isn't enough counter to direct damage in the game atm. Hunter had this issue before.

- - - Updated - - -

if you see to many of that kinda deck, play an aggro deck, even with the freeze,flamestrike, blizzard, if all your guys have charge it wont matter. Follow up with big beefies where they have to waste their spells to kill them, instead of you.

There are WAY tons of counters to this, just think outside the box on creation..


Besides all else, ITS BETA!! THIS ISNT FINAL GAME

The only thing I dont like is the MC nerf, I see why its needed, but its either MC, or heal, and sometimes that makes me lose. Yes 10 turns lets people have their big guy out, but we miss a heal because we have to use all our mana to MC, and its not worth it unless we were winning anyways most of the time. Lost a game earlier cause I either had to MC or heal, if mc was still 8 mana, I would have lived but with the 10, not only does it take all my mana, I have to wait 10 turns to use it. I think the nerf should have been (costs 10 mana, but your next spell/ability this turn costs 2 less) that way still had to wait till turn 10, but you dont lose the 2 mana you would have used on something else

Aggro decks don't work, because direct damage isn't affected by taunt, I haven't tried charge decks though. That's the entire point of this thread: there's no way to counter that.

MC was a bit silly in that it could be played too early. Then again pyroblast is equally silly at 8mana.

[roahn the warlock]

I agree, It's really tough to deal with some decks right now, especially the ones who get to shoot at you all day long. I think Hearthstone would benefit greatly from instant cast spells. Perhaps at the end of your turn your mana goes back to normal. So, if they use a fireball, you can throw up a counter, but when your turn comes, you have less mana

- - - Updated - - -

sorry to make this more mage focussed- but it's the more obvious example to describe problem atm Which is: there isn't enough counter to direct damage in the game atm. Hunter had this issue before.

- - - Updated - - -



Aggro decks don't work, because direct damage isn't affected by taunt, I haven't tried charge decks though. That's the entire point of this thread: there's no way to counter that.

MC was a bit silly in that it could be played too early. Then again pyroblast is equally silly at 8mana.

I play a paladin deck. Which is also one of those high class decks. But I gotta say I would trade lay on hands for pyroblast. Lay on hands is a great card, but by the time you can play it, you're bound to take around 8 dmg, and then it's like meh to use

[Fayth]

I personally think that control gained by freezing effects should be nerfed. Being able to chain freeze the board for several turns I basically taking extra turns.
It nerfs directly spells such as fireball and pyroblast as you potentially need to use them as removal, instead just for pinging your opponent. Besides, you can play around most of the mage AoE spells.

[WorldofWorkcraft]

It's definitely an interesting mechanic. Warlocks draining their hand so they can play Soulfire, or drain it to 3 with 2 soulfires hoping that after the first one they don't discard their second so they can do the last 8 damage they need. I've never played a really good shadowform/mind-blast priest yet, but I'd very much like to see one.

If you mean direct as in bypassing taunts, then you're talking Mage (1), Warlock (2), and Shaman (3) I guess? Mage is obviously the most threatening, and I think spells like Fireball, Pyroblast, Soulfire, and Lightning Bolt should all be how Lightning Storm functions. Instead of "Deals 10 damage", it should be like..."Deals 8-10 damage", or "7-11" or something that makes you hesitate to play it yet really go for that RNG. In a game based on RNG, I'd like to see more just to make people go crazier :P. Fireball can be 5-6, Pyro can be 8-10 since I think 10 is high already, Lightning bolt 2-3, soulfire 3-4, etc.

[Ryme]

I've never played a really good shadowform/mind-blast priest yet, but I'd very much like to see one.

I have! I got trounced because I just did not see it coming, I completely forgot how much direct damage a priest has at their disposal. He blasted me to oblivion at the end once he got Prophet Velen out, I could only laugh and begin constructing my own priest burn deck.

[xskarma]

If you mean direct as in bypassing taunts, then you're talking Mage (1), Warlock (2), and Shaman (3) I guess?

Don't forget Druid, they pack a punch too.

[Saurus]

I personally think that control gained by freezing effects should be nerfed. Being able to chain freeze the board for several turns I basically taking extra turns.
It nerfs directly spells such as fireball and pyroblast as you potentially need to use them as removal, instead just for pinging your opponent. Besides, you can play around most of the mage AoE spells.

Freeze is just too powerful.

RNG on damage cards could help.

Priest draw/burn decks are very scary indeed.

[Azutael]

I've never played a really good shadowform/mind-blast priest yet, but I'd very much like to see one.

I've met some crazy ones before, doesn't happen often though. Once I met a priest with malygos, velen and shadowform... the dmg was crazy you could say.

Warlock direct dmg is at least a little bit lower, and soulfire discards a card. Which could just as well screw you over.

Druid nukes might be high, but they also cost a lot. So if they haven't set up spelldamage beforehand then it's not that bad. Especially after wrath and starfall where nerfed to minions only.

[Raiju]

Does direct damage need to be nerf or frost effects, since nerfing both would absolutely gut mages.

Personally I believe frost effects, since direct damage is a powerful tool for other classes too. If a mage can't stall you 8 turns (with some luck) they can't just wait out till they can nuke you down. They'd have put more cards towards board control.

[May90]

I've always felt that the initial HP is too low. 30 HP makes heroes really vulnerable to all kinds of early damage, such as early direct damage (Mage), early rush (Hunter, Warrior), early overbuffed units (Priest) and so on. 50 HP would make the game much more strategic, and 2 Pyros + 2 Fireballs wouldn't be near enough to end the game.

[WorldofWorkcraft]

Don't forget Druid, they pack a punch too.

Yeah, they have..what, Starfire and Swipe? It's hard to effectively use those for direct hero damage just because they're high mana. I do really like Druid play, though. There's a lot of versatility with hero attack power, spells to add attack/health, cool minions, etc. I don't think their direct damage needs a nerf though. T9 Druid is nice though, if I can draw the Treants+Savage Roar. Druids just have to get someone down to 14 HP with that combo, hoping no taunts exist. It's one of my favorite game enders, because a lot of people with board and card control don't expect it. I need another FoN though ...

[Myci]

Mages are broken, they need to be toned down. 90% of all decks i have faced since rank 10 are reckfulls spell deck, or giants spell mage deck.