How to fix CC ...

[Deleted]

What do you think about adding some kind of health return for every player, who is under the effect of crowd control? Like when you get CCed you gain 2 or 3% (it could be more or less) health every second for the duration of cc. Doesn't break on damage, with exception of Mage's Polymorph and other such CCs.
So lets say Warlock fears you for 6 second and then Rogue Cheapshot you for the next 4 seconds. You will get 2 or 3% (it could be more or less) health every second for the next 10 seconds. Same for almost any other kind of cc.
That will force players to CC the ones they want them to be "removed" from the battle for a short period of time, while damaging another enemy player and not be able to kill them in stunlock or Fear any more. So you will have to use your cc wisely. The one who gets CCed will be extremely hard to kill 1v1 or 2v1 for the duration of CC.
Sry for eng ...

[DiscoGhost]

polymorph does that! but thats it... sad face.

[Tulkus]

Maybe on things like fear and poly, but stuns are SUPPOSED to prevent you from taking actions when a team is going for the kill. If the idea is to deter people from CCing a target they are trying to kill, I don't like it. You should be able to shut down someone when you're going for the kill. On the other hand, a player that recognizes he is about to get hit hard and a stun is coming his way will premptively use defensives to survive the burst.

[Deleted]

You should be able to shut down someone when you're going for the kill.

Yes, but not that fast as you can do it now.

[Tulkus]

Yes, but not that fast as you can do it now.

Sorry, I just don't agree with that. Your abilities shouldn't be healing the enemy when you're trying to finish him off.

[Senathor]

Bad idea, really bad.

[Deleted]

CC is intended to harm the enemy player, not reward them! I am not sure I would enjoy CC, if it ends up healing an enemy.

But the main reason this idea won't work is due to the fact that it would over complicate the CC system, the very thing players do not want!

For example you are close to killing a healer, but need to cc the healer to secure a kill. But in the heat of the moment you suddenly have to consider if ccing the healer is a wise idea when it will heal them in addition to whatever hots/buffs they already have.

We are only human and would not have time to think such scenarios through to make a wise decision, people will ultimately (especially rogues/druids) spend their time/points doing damage rather than cc as that is a safer bet.

You will probably argue that it will at least reduce CC, but at the expense of over complicating CC, is it really worth it?

[Terahertz]

Just remove effects like Nature's Swiftness. NS is a great thing, but it's actually quite a clutch ability. I for one thing that DPS should not have access to such abilities. PoM is a ridiculous ability because it allows players to avoid taking risks. I know that in the current state, these abilities are needed. However, removing them also means less CC.

Other abilities like Blood Horror should be removed. Howl of Terror should have a cast time simply because of its power while abilities like paralyse should have a somewhat longer CD (20 seconds instead of 15).

Abilities like strangulate and storm bolt should also be rid of, or have a higher cooldown. They're both long ranged stuns which is really stupid. Warrior shouldn't have double interrupts and double reflects. Remove one of each and casters will be able to start casting again, which means spells like PoM and NS can be removed from DPS.

Random CC that allows players to fuck up like wyvern sting should also be rid of. It doesn't make any sense that when a hunter fucks up his trap, he can just wyvern right after and still have a in total 10 second CC chain.

[Dasani]

All they gotta do to fix CC is put all of it on the same DR.

Stuns, Fear, Polymorph, Disorient, etc etc etc. So if you get hit by ANY of it, subsequent CCs are lessened. That way you can't build teams around maximizing CC to keep one person locked down indefinitely (or so long it might as well be indefinite). Being chain CC'ed is incredibly boring, especially since you have no means of preventing it. With your pvp trinket, whoop, once every 2 minutes. How about the other dozen CCs that hit you between cooldowns? Oh that's right, can't do anything about all that, oh well.

I see CC as something useful to buy you an extra couple of seconds to do something, but in WOW CC has become as bad in PVP as it is in PVE and you can keep someone locked down most of the fight, it's kinda ridiculous. And it just gets worse and worse as it turns into a kind of CC arms race where the devs keep giving more and more CC to everyone to try to balance it and it just makes the pvp environment shittier as a whole as a result.

But yeah, shared DR 4tw.

[ComputerNerd]

I have to agree in part with Dasani here.
The quantity of CC options, and the considerable number of independent Diminishing Returns is the issue.
You can be hit by multiple in sequence without any consequences for future ones.

The issue is in part driven by healers, who without being controlled in such a fashion would simply not die.

[Deleted]

What about lowering the duration of some CCs? Fear would last for only 3 seconds instead of 8, same for Cyclone and Polymorph ... I'm not sure about rogue and feral's stuns ...

[boria glorger]

Remove from the game: Psyfiend, Fists of Fury, Turn Evil/Repentance for hpalies, bash/disorienting roar, asphyxiate, storm bolt, maybe couple more

Delete every interaction between NS, PoM with cc abilities, and all blanket silences on interrupts

game fixed

[NickCageFanatic]

Honestly I say reduce the amount of CC to where CC is more an "finisher" button rather than something to keep on CD rotating with your friends.

CCs could then be used as finishers to replace the fail executes in pvp, but in this case rather than giving you a new dmg dealing ability at 20% you get a stun ability at 20% that allows you to finish off the other player. CCs outside of that finishing range are 50% less effective.

No need for "The Crowd Chose Fail" buff in arena, no more chain CCing, instead the game becomes simply to focusing down targets into finishing ranging where then you unload your final burst to score a kill. But you still CC in order to slow down play, but the CC lasts half as long outside of finishing range.

While in this "Finishing" state (20%- hp) the player can gain a buff sort like...

"Desperation" - On the edge of death the player becomes desperate, adrenaline rushes through their body increasing their quickness. They gain an ability called "Desperation" which functions as a second pvp trinket that does not share a CD with their current trinket.

20% hp isn't very much so a player will have to be very quick with their reaction timing to get out of CC, so it acts like a counter but not too much of one for rewarding bad play.

[Snuggli]

All they gotta do to fix CC is put all of it on the same DR.

Stuns, Fear, Polymorph, Disorient, etc etc etc. So if you get hit by ANY of it, subsequent CCs are lessened. That way you can't build teams around maximizing CC to keep one person locked down indefinitely (or so long it might as well be indefinite). Being chain CC'ed is incredibly boring, especially since you have no means of preventing it. With your pvp trinket, whoop, once every 2 minutes. How about the other dozen CCs that hit you between cooldowns? Oh that's right, can't do anything about all that, oh well.

I see CC as something useful to buy you an extra couple of seconds to do something, but in WOW CC has become as bad in PVP as it is in PVE and you can keep someone locked down most of the fight, it's kinda ridiculous. And it just gets worse and worse as it turns into a kind of CC arms race where the devs keep giving more and more CC to everyone to try to balance it and it just makes the pvp environment shittier as a whole as a result.

But yeah, shared DR 4tw.

I don't know if it's just me, but I can only imagine that if all CC was put on the same DR it would vastly reduce the skillcap of Arena. Sure, it might be more enjoyable than games where you were caught out of place vs a MLD and CCd for 40 seconds, or CCd to death by a KFC who are training you, but if you put all CC on the same DR it would simply break so many different aspects of the game.

Firstly, Rogues would just break. You can't play a Rogue if your Sap, Garrote and Cheap share DRs.

Secondly, you would never be able to swap to a Healer unless you hadn't CCd him for 15 seconds previous to your swap... meaning his team would be topped and ready to respond anyway. A lot of comps rely around forcing healers into bad positions, CCing them and cleaning them, and then bursting them and getting cooldowns. A shared DR would ruin that aspect of the game.

Thirdly, you'd be constantly arguing or angry with someone DRing your spells. Imagine in BGs, you'd almost never be able to use your own spells on people without it being DRd. In Arena, your team mates would have to constantly worry about peeling for each other. Spells like Gouge, Disorienting Roar, Shockwave and even Roots wouldn't be able to be used, because Fear, Polymorph, Kidney Shot, Trap, etc. would all be better peels because they last longer.

Fourthly, without CC chains the game would either be about spread damage to oom healers (Cunning of the Cruel Shadowplay/Spicy Chicken S11) or having so much burst/train capabilities that CC wasn't really needed (S5 TSG/Beastcleave). Neither of those are fun playstyles. I'd much rather the game be about positioning, stopping CC and reacting to enemy CDs with your own.

I agree, maybe some unnecessary CCs need to go (Binding Shot, Wyvern Sting, Hunter pet CC, Subterfuge Cheapshots, Disorienting Roar, Ring of Frost, Psyfiend, Capacitor Totem), but lumping all CCs into the same tree? No way. Even if Physical (stuns) and Magic (trap/poly/fear etc) were on two different CC DRs, I don't think it would improve the game.

TL/DR: The amount of DRs isn't the problem. Maybe the amount of unnecessary 3s CCs is.

[Bloodjunky22]

putting CC on the same DR would fix nothing and add bloat, not saying they shouldn't rethink them but making them all pretty much useless like some suggest would just add useless buttons to the game.

[worstpvperus]

putting CC on the same DR would fix nothing and add bloat, not saying they shouldn't rethink them but making them all pretty much useless like some suggest would just add useless buttons to the game.

How would that add bloat? it doesn't change the amount of cc in the game just makes it more annoying to use. Why not just remove instant cc. If people have to cast or set up cc like scatter trap(someone can eat it) the game would be better because you could counter all of it.

[XangXu]

How you "fix" CC is you go the Guild Wars 2 route which is done by adding the "Stability" buff to the game, and have every class be able to put it up in some way or another... Players bitch about if CC was remove it'd remove coordination from the game. Stability would not only offer ways to protect yourself from CC, but it would also encourage even MORE coordination.


Guild Wars 2 has also done an incredibly good job at making clear what the more powerful forms of CC are, and give those abilities appropriate cool downs and skill needed to pull them off. The abilities' duration would also be brought down... for example....

I'd say the 3 major forms of CC in WoW right now are Fears, Stuns, and Shape-Changers. These three CCs all have one thing in common and that is that they remove the player's ability to control their character. It's the mind numbing, rage inducing few moments where you are powerless unless you have a trinket (or a damned good debuff remover)


You rework the way those 3 CC's are used and you've taken a step in the right direction.





I will say one thing about Guild Wars 2. The battles in PvP take place on a much smaller scale and in many cases, discourages teams from grouping together for one giant "Focus fest".

[Deleted]

Imo the health return is something i though of aswell, especially since it sortof promotes good defensive and offensive play. But to fix cc blanket cc should be removed; rogues you know who you are, cc should break very easily; fear. and there should be less of it. Maybe 1 peel per class, 1 cc and 1 stun and interrupt. And they should all dr. This would make uptime damage and positioning more important. For all I care pvpers get a totally different toolkit from pve'ers but ffs plz balance it.

[Futon]

Not a very good option. The best option is to fix and clarify what causes DR so long cc chains are less likely to happen. The next best option would be to lower the cd on PVP trinket to 90 seconds... or maybe even lower. Then of course fears should be breaking sooner than they do and probably lower the total time someone can be stunned for.

[Deleted]

I don't know if it's just me, but I can only imagine that if all CC was put on the same DR it would vastly reduce the skillcap of Arena. Sure, it might be more enjoyable than games where you were caught out of place vs a MLD and CCd for 40 seconds, or CCd to death by a KFC who are training you, but if you put all CC on the same DR it would simply break so many different aspects of the game.

Hard to disagree with Snuggli. For me coordinating CCs, using burst/survival abilities are much more enjoyable gameplay than ooming the healer or cleaving other team to death.