So, why isn't SMF better than TG?

[Deztru]

I mean.. it would increase all my damage by 35%, meaning that my weapon attack would increase by 35% and stormbolt damage by an additional 35%.

[Raugnaut]

1) two-handed weapons deal close to TWICE as much damage as one-handed weapons. The 35% to all damage does not shrink the gap enough.
2) Pre-5.4, SMF/TG was generally fairly close together depending on the gear lvl.
3) Stormbolt got buffed enough to be worth using, AND a sizable portion of damage at that. Storm Bolt ONLY scales with main-hand weapon damage.

Thus, by going SMF, Stormbolt will deal significantly less damage then by using TG. This is simply because going with Storm Bolt greatly tips the balance in favor of weapon damage, not weapon dps. Thus, you want 2-handed weapons when going stormbolt.

For a bit more info- with SMF, any 553 one-handed weapon deals a baseline 13846-25718 weapon damage, not counting AP modifiers. Any 2-handed weapon deals 21866-32830 weapon damage, not counting AP modifiers. Thus, a stormbolt with a one-handed weapon does 1003830-186448, not counting modifiers, and a 2 handed weapon, 158528-238017, not counting modifiers. That is quite a bit of damage lost once you add in strength modifiers.

If you do NOT use stormbolt at all, then SMF becomes about equal with TG. With stormbolt, TG is ahead by quite a bit.

[mickybrighteyes]

Short answer? cause avatar doesn't give a % damage bonus while active anymore?

[Anuibus]

A two-handed weapon is slightly less than 35% better than an equal ilvl one-hander. the SMF bonus makes the dps of the 2 weapons equal, but smf weapons are still only 2.6 speed, making their weapon damage lower despite having equal dps. This makes raging blow, storm bolt, whirlwind, and bloodthirst hit harder for TG while SMF will have more auto attack damage. or something like that.

1) two-handed weapons deal close to TWICE as much damage as one-handed weapons. The 35% to all damage does not shrink the gap enough.
2) Pre-5.4, SMF/TG was generally fairly close together depending on the gear lvl.
3) Stormbolt got buffed enough to be worth using, AND a sizable portion of damage at that. Storm Bolt ONLY scales with main-hand weapon damage.

Thus, by going SMF, Stormbolt will deal significantly less damage then by using TG. This is simply because going with Storm Bolt greatly tips the balance in favor of weapon damage, not weapon dps. Thus, you want 2-handed weapons when going stormbolt.

1. A two-hander is about 34.9% better than a one-hander from a raw dps stand point. the smf bonus makes it so both your weapons are doing the dps of a 2hander, but they are still only 2.6 speed meaning they have less weapon damage for abilities.
3. stormbolt does 500% of both weapons, not 500% of your main hand twice.

[Raugnaut]

1. A two-hander is about 34.9% better than a one-hander from a raw dps stand point. the smf bonus makes it so both your weapons are doing the dps of a 2hander, but they are still only 2.6 speed meaning they have less weapon damage for abilities.
3. stormbolt does 500% of both weapons, not 500% of your main hand twice.

When I said damage, I meant more raw weapon damage. Point still remains- Storm Bolt only scales with weapon damage and not weapon DPS, so if you are taking stormbolt, you go TG for the maximum damage.

[Deleted]

That 35% of smf is not comparable to TG.

Almost all warrior dmg skills are calculated based on weapon dmg. So that 35% is there to cover for the dmg lost from the lower weapon dmg of 1h over to 2h and the lack of stats on 1h over to 2h.

[Anuibus]

That 35% of smf is not comparable to TG.

Almost all warrior dmg skills are calculated based on weapon dmg. So that 35% is there to cover for the dmg lost from the lower weapon dmg of 1h over to 2h and the lack of stats on 1h over to 2h.

It used to be comparable single target because smf had a better execute phase due to it going off attack power rather than weapon damage. But the buff to raging blow and blood thirst, as well as the inclusion of storm bolt into our rotation, has shifted the power further away from execute, resulting in smf just falling behind.

[CollisionTD]

SMF is still a viable spec, it's just 5-10% behind TG. Single-target blizzard has managed to keep TG/SMF fairly well balanced until this tier, but TG has always been vastly superior on aoe/cleave than SMF all expansion, and that's something they need to work on in WoD.

[sjsctt]

not to mention the stam you lose. SMF is viable, just not optimal. Better than arms, but not on par with TG

[Darkfriend]

Short answer? Scaling, BS changes, SB changes, EEoG, cleave fights, etc.

[Trubo]

It used to be comparable single target because smf had a better execute phase due to it going off attack power rather than weapon damage. But the buff to raging blow and blood thirst, as well as the inclusion of storm bolt into our rotation, has shifted the power further away from execute, resulting in smf just falling behind.

Another thing to consider is that in ToT it was far easier to get decent 1h weapons than 2h weapons.

[sjsctt]

Another thing to consider is that in ToT it was far easier to get decent 1h weapons than 2h weapons.

This. 2 handers passed 1 hands in ToT, but the difference wasn't by much, and it took the best 2 handers to pass (which progression is over at that point anyways.) Not to mention, for loot distribution purposes, the raid was better off giving other 2 handed users 2 handers and you the 1s, since we did the most dmg with 1 handers out of possible 1 handed users.

A little wordy, and I doubt it will read well...but oh well.

[marklar]

the SMF buff wording is a bit unclear to me, and i'm not sure which abilities the extra OH damage applies to, but here's how i read it. break the damage contributions down into pieces:

1) first, you need to know your actual weapon damage.

2H: base damage + (3.3*AP/14)
1H: 1.35(base damage + (2.4*AP/14)) = 1.35(base damage) + (3.24*AP/14)

you can see the contribution from AP is very close. using 574 weapons, the average damage of the 2H is 33,271 and the 1H is 17,821. assuming 60k AP for TG (and 10% less for SMF), the average weapon damage of each is:

MH
1H: 36,557
2H: 47,414

OH
1H: 36,557 * 0.5 * 1.35 = 24,676
2H: 47,414 * 0.5 = 23,707

OH contributions will be similar for the two, while MH contributions will clearly be stronger for TG. the more AP you have, the closer the numbers get. the better the weapon, the further apart they get.

2) white damage
1H: (36,557 + 24,676) / 2.6 = 23,551 dps
2H: (47,414 + 23707) / 3.6 = 19,756 dps

slight advantage to SMF

3) yellow attacks (weapon based)
BT: large advantage to TG
RB: large advantage to TG
CS: large advantage to TG
SB: enormous advantage to TG
WS: about even, slight advantage to SMF
HS: assuming the extra damage stacks with the SMF buff, SMF will hit harder. this also makes SMF more punishing if you don't manage your rage correctly.

4) execute (no weapon damage contribution)
execute only relies on AP, but TG will have 10% more AP from the extra strength on the weapons, so SMF ends up with executes that hit about 22% harder (1.35 * 0.9).

these numbers are all baseline of course. stat boosts, etc will multiply the actual numbers greatly, which only magnifies the differences. so you end up with a big advantage for TG on BT, RB, SB, & CS and a big advantage for SMF on execute & HS.

[Sumatran]

Also you get wayyyy more stats.

With 2x Xal'atoh, Desecrated Image of Gorehowl You get 4000 Str / 6242 Stam / 2402 Crit / 2848 Mastery

Wtih 2x Malkorok's Skullcleaver You get 1622 Str / 2674 Stam / 1162 Hit / 1020 Crit

Difference of 2378 Str / 3568 Stam / 1382 Crit. Or 4756 attack power / 35,680 health / 2.04% crit.

Thats a pretty big difference as well as all the other stuff mentioned above