Should men have the right, for legal-abortion?

[obdigore]

It doesn't need to be 'widespread' or 'increasing' for the law to take action on it. LGBT individuals constitute only an average of 5% of most societies according to various Pew studies among others; I suppose some silly little figure like 5% is not enough to justify laws being made on their behalf? They are only a minority, after all; same as the men who find themselves victim to the aforementioned circumstances in this thread.

I see what we are talking about as like .000000000000001% of births. Like I said, I have no issues about someone doing some actual scientific investigation into this issue to see what kind of occurrence we are actually seeing.

Does anyone have such data?

[Dezerte]

The best protection is to not stick your thing in women.

[Lightwysh]

If a court grants a man a reasonable case for an abortion but the women declines due to "her body her choice" then the man should have all legal parental burdens removed.

[Daws]

Science to the rescue (coming soonish, pun intended)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25184076

[justandulas]

Condoms can break, they can also be sabotaged. Girls have lied about contraception to get pregnant before.

If he doesn't want it, and she does, why should he have to deal with the responsibility for the next 16 years or so?

I say this because I had a girl in my life who was trying similar. Only I smelled a rat, confronted her about it to have her in tears denying it/saying I was a horrible person to even suggest such a thing... Skip to the next time I heard from her, 6 months later she was nearly 6 months pregnant. She had literally wasted no time in finding another guy, lying to him and managing to get herself knocked up. It's predatory behavior, it should not be rewarded.

This. I don't know why it's so hard to believe that some women out there are selfish and evil. This girl from your life sounds exactly like the former best friend of my gf. Manipulated and lied her way into a baby with a man she barely knew, but knew he had money to take. Most women aren't like that and they need all the support we can give them from dirtbags trying to avoid helping with a baby they made, but there are cases where women are no different than predatory animals looking for a mate and to HELL with anyone who gets hurt. Some women want a baby so bad, they'd gladly destroy the life of a man to get it and not think twice about it.

[Tinykong]

Your decision is when you decide to stick your dick in someone. That's where your decision ends.
It is unfair. I'm not arguing the opposite. It also results in the best outcomes for either the potential child, or the person affected the most by the pregnancy itself, thus is a way better solution despite being unfair.

Sounds like someone has an anti-men angenda.

Your stuck with the archaic mindset that a pregnancy must result in a birth. The man's decision to "financially" abort in no way forces the woman to do anything. She is free to do whatever she likes. If she can't afford it, then that is her decision.

[Dura]

Your decision is when you decide to stick your dick in someone. That's where your decision ends.
It is unfair. I'm not arguing the opposite. It also results in the best outcomes for either the potential child, or the person affected the most by the pregnancy itself, thus is a way better solution despite being unfair.

she wanted that dick as bad as i wanted to put in in there.
bullshit that my descision ends there.

[schwarzkopf]

It is unfair because you would fucking force a woman to go through 9 months of pregnancy just because the man doesn't agree with it. Thus, giving bodily autonomy to him.

Nope - the woman chooses 'FULL' then has an abortion. Finished. Over.

Remember - the WOMAN gets to choose FULL or EQUAL.

[Austilias]

The best protection is to not stick your thing in women.

A lot of people tend to view abstinence as some sort of inhumane human rights abuse these days, however. Particularly noticeable during any debate involving condoms and teenagers.

[Shennanigans]

Never gonna happen. I do think however there is a lot of things that could be done to allow men in general to control their reproductive choices. Not a lot has been done towards temporary male birth control. I think that is the answer. No more holes in the condom or ladies who trap men by becoming pregnant. Of course nothing is 100% but I think men would rest easier if they knew they had a little control over the situation.

[Austilias]

I see what we are talking about as like .000000000000001% of births. Like I said, I have no issues about someone doing some actual scientific investigation into this issue to see what kind of occurrence we are actually seeing.

Does anyone have such data?

There may not be any firm, peer-reviewed data (that I know of, at least); but so long as the circumstance described in the OP's scenario has happened at least once in living memory (and it's happened more than that, i'm sure), the fact remains that legal safeguards need to be put in place for those affected. A minority is a minority; even if it's a minority of one.

[obdigore]

A lot of people tend to view abstinence as some sort of inhumane human rights abuse these days, however. Particularly noticeable during any debate involving condoms and teenagers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh4yp07UKEg

- - - Updated - - -

There may not be any firm, peer-reviewed data (that I know of, at least); but so long as the circumstance described in the OP's scenario has happened at least once in living memory (and it's happened more than that, i'm sure), the fact remains that legal safeguards need to be put in place for those affected. A minority is a minority; even if it's a minority of one.

The problem is that the suggested law is going cause a lot more 'lol cum everywhere I sign off on any kids' than protecting those poor tricked guys.

[Tinykong]

The problem is that the suggested law is going cause a lot more 'lol cum everywhere I sign off on any kids' than protecting those poor tricked guys.

Nice strawman. Are women currently in the habit of accepting whatever semen flies in their general direction?

[Austilias]

The problem is that the suggested law is going cause a lot more 'lol cum everywhere I sign off on any kids' than protecting those poor tricked guys.

Citation needed.

[Lily Crowley]

While I would love for some law that punish both women and men alike when one tricks the other into having a kid, I am still unsure whether the idea presented by the OP is a good idea or not.

Will this law only cover the men who were tricked or will it cover all men who decide they don't want a kid when the woman they slept with became pregnant by accident?


I personally think the cases where people truly are tricked like this are far and few between. How about people stop being dumb and naive and rather take all the preventive measures they can before engaging in sex?
It beats me why anyone would go out, get drunk and then believe some woman they never met before when she says "I'm on the pill, lets go bareback!".

It would kinda be like if you find a CHEAP Gucci bag when you travel abroad and then when you come back you get arrested for buying a copy. Oh did you really believe that was the real thing now? If you are that dumb you deserve whats coming to ya. Man up and take responsibility for something that you shared a decision in.



Point in my post: Guys, wrap your willy, with condoms YOU bought YOURSELF and don't believe just any crazy chick who comes your way. Preferably don't have casual sexual relationships without a condom at all.

[Deleted]

Nope.

Once the child is its own being, it changes from 'mens' or 'womens' rights to the rights of that child.

I think people aren't arguing about this, but what we're arguing is that when the child is still in the womb, the man should have the right to renounce unilaterally the same way the woman can abort it unilaterally.

[Dura]

It is unfair because you would fucking force a woman to go through 9 months of pregnancy just because the man doesn't agree with it. Thus, giving bodily autonomy to him.
What you want are possible in-vitro pregnancies, or pregnant men. Until then, this 'equal responsibility' shit means pretty much nothing.

Naive. Cute. Or just too deep into a $$$bubble$$$. Check any of those that applies to this sentence.

you cannot force a women to go trough pregnancy.
she knew that could result from sex.
but she IS forcing him to pay child support if she keeps the baby. despite being financinaly unable to. THAT is wrong.

[Elim Garak]

I see what we are talking about as like .000000000000001% of births. Like I said, I have no issues about someone doing some actual scientific investigation into this issue to see what kind of occurrence we are actually seeing.

Does anyone have such data?

There cannot be any scientific research in that field because you can only ask people about it. And there's no lie detector.

I know of someone who was a victim. Some other people know of someone who was a victim. DO THE MATH. It's a common thing. Even comedians are making jokes about it. That's one of the scientific tools if you will - comics joke about it? Then it's a common thing.

Women have motives to do it, means to do it and ways of escaping retribution for doing it. It's a perfect crime. Because unless you were trying to catch a woman doing it and recorded everything on a video camera - you won't be able to prove it in court. Hence why there needs to be a LEGAL way for men to "abort".

[schwarzkopf]

It is a complete non-choice. How the fuck is a single mother without child support supposed to raise a child ?

If the woman can't afford to have the child, she has an abortion OR she chooses EQUAL.

Do you even think of the child who will grow up in such an environment, with only one parent, in exceeding poverty, and shit? Do you honestly think more than a single second that this is preferable to someone's wallet being drained a bit?

I know I couldn't afford child support and afford to live as well. This isn't a question about the child, because this decision is being made (as you said) before there is a child.

[obdigore]

I think people aren't arguing about this, but what we're arguing is that when the child is still in the womb, the man should have the right to renounce unilaterally the same way the woman can abort it unilaterally.

But the problem is, if the man 'aborts', that child still becomes a thing and needs resources. If a woman aborts, it does not. The situations are inherently different, and the outcome is inherently different.