Should men have the right, for legal-abortion?

[Lothan]

I'm all for equality. But honestly, women shouldn't have the right to an abortion except in the case of the pregnancy is putting her life at risk and she must terminate the child or die. Otherwise the child's right to live should be protected. Don't want it? Give it up to adoption and neither parent should have responsibility.

As for this argument. If law allows for women to have an abortion then the law should give men the same right.

[Velaniz]

Absolutely they should.

[Deleted]

My proposition: A male needs to sign a document stating he wants the child before the term for abortion is up. If he does not sign before that date, he has no obligation to the child.

This proposition has some drawbacks: It would mean that he would also have no right to the child, meaning that the woman can keep him away from his child by not providing the information of her pregnancy.
On the other hand, a male cannot be forced to become a father by the woman withholding information, either. It's not perfect, and male parental rights and options are still limited this way, but the limits should be reduced to create at least as much equality as possible.

Edit: Also, for clarity, a male who signs is a father, and has obligation to the child. That should reduce deadbeat fathers, which is why I propose this solution instead of allowing men to just walk away when they feel like it. If she wants a child, but does not want to raise her child by herself, and he refuses to sign, the woman should still have the option of opting out herself, which is why the document must be signed before her term (for abortion) is up.

Hah! Wouldn't that be easy ?!

Sorry babe, I forgot my condom, looks like you're stuck with it as I decline all rights and obligations, I just wanted to bang you.

Such a document would be men's wet dream.

[Stir]

Equality ?! Ahahahahahahahaha.

What does it take a man to conceive a child ? About 5 min (more or less).
What does it take as a woman to conceive a child ? About 9 months, hormonal issues and ultimately lots of pain and blood. And then she's kinda stuck with it for the next +18 years.

NO! Men should not be able to ditch the responsibility.

It's the woman's choice to keep or ditch it, however. Her choice, her responsibility. Unless he signs up.

Hah! Wouldn't that be easy ?!

Sorry babe, I forgot my condom, looks like you're stuck with it as I decline all rights and obligations, I just wanted to bang you.

Yeah, so you didn't read or comprehend my post. At all. Congratulations on being you, I guess.

[obdigore]

MRA'ers? you think just because i don't buy into the concept of women forcing men to pay child support by keeping a fetus even though they don't want that makes me mra? lol

What are you talking about? Where is this giant wave of women tricking the poor unsuspecting men into impregnating them then cackling with glee as they get child support after having a baby claw its monstrous way out of their vaginas?

I'll wait until you can preset this as an actual issue.

Protip: 'My friends, mailmans, dogs former owners, wives, brothers, ex-fiancé did it to him!' doesn't count.

[Austilias]

No reason why not, so long as it's done reasonably. A guy shouldn't be able to have a legal abortion during the last week of a pregnancy term, for example; but within the abortion term/first ~24 weeks? Sounds reasonable to me.

[Deleted]

What are you talking about? Where is this giant wave of women tricking the poor unsuspecting men into impregnating them then cackling with glee as they get child support after having a baby claw its monstrous way out of their vaginas?

I'll wait until you can preset this as an actual issue.

Protip: 'My friends, mailmans, dogs former owners, wives, brothers, ex-fiancé did it to him!' doesn't count.

it happens often enough to warrant such an option for men

[obdigore]

it happens often enough to warrant such an option for men

[Citation Needed]

[Velaniz]

I didn't say the man would spend time with the child. Stop thinking only about yourself. It is that simple.

Protip: Women get the choice of abortion because it is a bodily autonomy issue. Men don't because literally nothing happens inside their body.

I know it is hard for MRA'ers to realize that situations differ, but there it is.

The bodily autonomy argument is predicated on the woman having rights over her own body, because it is her body. Something which needs to be added to that is the fact that it because it is also her body which is being affected her, that the responsibility of preventing a pregnancy should also be greater on her part, and the consequences of her choices to not give the child up for adoption/abort it should also be reflected on her.

[Deleted]

[Citation Needed]

no need for citation, once is one time too many

[Stir]

Yes. The situation is different. She has one extra choice than you because everything happens in her body.

Logic.

No; you cannot give someone the right to hold their bodies hostage in order to promote inequality. We're working around such issues in professional fields because males have a physical strength advantage, and we want to give women better options and more equality. And I'm all for that. But equality works both ways.

[Moralgy]

This really is a no-brainer for me. A legal abortion, as worded by the article, should definitely be a thing.

Mostly just posting for quick reference for later when I want to read a lot of "personal responsibility" posts.

[obdigore]

no need for citation, once is one time too many

Poor oppressed males nailing women without using protection and then being horribly held hostage by their vagina-secretions is totally an issue that we need to fix.

[Velaniz]

Nope.

Once the child is its own being, it changes from 'mens' or 'womens' rights to the rights of that child.

The child is its own being only because ultimately, the woman willed it to be, as a direct consequence of not terminating a pregnancy she wasn't financially prepared for.

[obdigore]

No; you cannot give someone the right to hold their bodies hostage in order to promote inequality. We're working around such issues in professional fields because males have a physical strength advantage, and we want to give women better options and more equality. And I'm all for that. But equality works both ways.

Equality is for equal situations. In this case bodily autonomy is not an equal situation since none of it happens within the man. Therefore, the woman has one extra say re: bodily autonomy.

[Velaniz]

Poor oppressed males nailing women without using protection and then being horribly held hostage by their vagina-secretions is totally an issue that we need to fix.

See, this is just straw-manning things now. Besides, you don't have to not use protection for there to be a conception.

[obdigore]

The child is its own being only because ultimately, the woman willed it to be, as a direct consequence of not terminating a pregnancy she wasn't financially prepared for.

So the man had no part in spilling his seed within the woman? All the womans fault because she refused to have an operation/chemical abortion?

[Lashmoo]

Yes, I agree with this. That said, there should be some methodology to it due to the fact that many people would just use it as a get-out-of-jail card. I'll let people much smarter than I come up with the regulations involved, however.

[Deleted]

So the man had no part in spilling his seed within the woman? All the womans fault because she refused to have an operation/chemical abortion?

she should use contraceptives or abort since the onus should be greater for her since her body is directly affected by it

[Velaniz]

Equality is for equal situations. In this case bodily autonomy is not an equal situation since none of it happens within the man. Therefore, the woman has one extra say re: bodily autonomy.

Exactly, it is an unequal situation because the pregnancy is inherently only a burden on the woman. Therefore, to hold the man accountable at all to something someone let happen to their own body on the basis of 'equality' is an irrational thing to do, since we've established here that the situation is inherently unequal.