Should men have the right, for legal-abortion?

[Catta]

Right, but the woman can interfere with the autonomy of an unwilling third party. Sounds fair.

Because the third party's rights does not supersede hers.

[Deleted]

Equality ?! Ahahahahahahahaha.

What does it take a man to conceive a child ? About 5 min (more or less).
What does it take as a woman to conceive a child ? About 9 months, hormonal issues and ultimately lots of pain and blood. And then she's kinda stuck with it for the next +18 years.

NO! Men should not be able to ditch the responsibility.

Don't keep it and problem solved. Your reaction sounds like either an elderly woman or a 15 year old. Both in a closed minset who will never change their mind no matter how good the arguments are.

[Arcanist]

Because the third party's rights does not supersede hers.

Her rights are not being violated when she is denied the ability to financially enslave another human being for two decades.

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If you are talking about the baby, see every single abortion-related thread for the last 5 years. The baby has no bodily autonomy until it is actually a baby, and even if it did, you can't forsake one person's right to bodily autonomy in order to support another. As an analogue, you can't force someone to donate an organ to allow another person to live.

I'm talking about the father.

[Denarius]

Equality ?! Ahahahahahahahaha.

What does it take a man to conceive a child ? About 5 min (more or less).
What does it take as a woman to conceive a child ? About 9 months, hormonal issues and ultimately lots of pain and blood. And then she's kinda stuck with it for the next +18 years.

NO! Men should not be able to ditch the responsibility.

And what about women? I am a FATHER, who while my ex was pregnant, threatened to leave, go out of state and adopt my son out, just so I would know he was out there and never be able to find him. Luckily enough, i was at the hospital the day he was born. From day 1 I had full responsibility of my son, and had to fight with the courts because they wanted me to force visitation on her. She eventually signed away her parental rights, and has no responsibility of my son now. No child support, no visitation, nothing.

If she's able to sign a piece of paper, why should a man not be allowed?

[Catta]

Her rights are not being violated when she is allowed to financially enslave another human being for two decades.

The money are not for her - but for the child. As far as i know as long as there is shared custody its the parent with the highest income who may be required to pay child support - regardless of sex.

[Delekii]

I'm talking about the father.

What possible claim could the father make in regards to maintaining bodily autonomy in the case of pregnancy and birth? I sure hope you aren't talking about the sperm; if you are, you'd best provide your log book of where every other previous discharge of sperm has gone in your lifetime, otherwise you will have to answer the question as to why you are concerned about this sperm in particular.

[Wells]

The money are not for her - but for the child. As far as i know as long as there is shared custody its the parent with the highest income who may be required to pay child support - regardless of sex.

Ssssssh they don't want to talk about the child.

[Arcanist]

The money are not for her - but for the child. As far as i know as long as there is shared custody its the parent with the highest income who may be required to pay child support - regardless of sex.

What right does she have to force a child on someone who wants nothing to do with it? Someone who did not consent? If anything, SHE should pay the man for the genetic material he provided.

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What possible claim could the father make in regards to maintaining bodily autonomy in the case of pregnancy and birth? I sure hope you aren't talking about the sperm; if you are, you'd best provide your log book of where every other previous discharge of sperm has gone in your lifetime, otherwise you will have to answer the question as to why you are concerned about this sperm in particular.

I'm talking about ruining his life and financially enslaving him for 2 decades.

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Ssssssh they don't want to talk about the child.

Which is entitled to nothing.

[Xanjori]

What right does she have to force a child on someone who wants nothing to do with it? Someone who did not consent? If anything, SHE should pay the man for the genetic material he provided.

"She" doesn't force it on him. The state does. The child needs caring for, if the father doesn't pay for it directly then everyone else does via taxes. You wanna raise taxes to cover for every father that doesn't want to contribute $150 a month towards their child?

[Wells]

Which is entitled to nothing.

A child is entitled to the best those who created it have to offer.

[Drakain]

What right does she have to force a child on someone who wants nothing to do with it? Someone who did not consent? If anything, SHE should pay the man for the genetic material he provided.

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I'm talking about ruining his life and financially enslaving him for 2 decades.

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Which is entitled to nothing.

If he consented to sex, he consented to the possibility of a pregnancy and all the consequences that entails. What's the issue here?

[Arcanist]

"She" doesn't force it on him. The state does. The child needs caring for, if the father doesn't pay for it directly then everyone else does via taxes. You wanna raise taxes to cover for every father that doesn't want to contribute $150 a month towards their child?

Who notifies the state? Perhaps if this woman wasn't incentivized to have a child she can't afford, the world would be a better place.

[Jackmoves]

Her rights are not being violated when she is denied the ability to financially enslave another human being for two decades.

This is when UNCRC kicks in, the right of the children. It has nothing to do with the mother.

[Catta]

What right does she have to force a child on someone who wants nothing to do with it? Someone who did not consent? If anything, SHE should pay the man for the genetic material he provided.

He is paying for the child he took part in creating.

I dont see a solution that wouldnt inevitably screw over either the taxpayer or the child for the fathers mistake. So yea, im holding the father and the mother accountable.

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Who notifies the state? Perhaps if this woman wasn't incentivized to have a child she can't afford, the world would be a better place.

Yes because having children is a net gain. As evidenced by parents having the most disposable income compared to childless couples and singles.

[Xanjori]

Who notifies the state? Perhaps if this woman wasn't incentivized to have a child she can't afford, the world would be a better place.

You think the state isn't aware of when a child is born?

[Arcanist]

If you're going to argue that the father has an obligation to the child because he helped to create it, then please explain why that obligation must stop when the child reaches adulthood. If being a creator creates the obligation, then the obligation should never go away because one would always remain the creator.

If a fireman rescues a child from a burning building, he has in effect given the child life. Does this create a binding obligation between the fireman and the child?

If a scientist creates a form is sentient life in a laboratory, is the scientist then obligated to care for this life? For how long? Forever?

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You think the state isn't aware of when a child is born?

The woman doesn't hesitate to name the father on the birth certificate. She could say she doesn't know. But she doesn't. Because free money.

[Rukentuts]

If you're going to argue that the father has an obligation to the child because he helped to create it, then please explain why that obligation must stop when the child reaches adulthood. If being a creator creates the obligation, then the obligation should never go away because one would always remain the creator.

If a fireman rescues a child from a burning building, he has in effect given the child life. Does this create a binding obligation between the fireman and the child?

If a scientist creates a form is sentient life in a laboratory, is the scientist then obligated to care for this life? For how long? Forever?

It's almost as if there aren't laws about this or anything.

[Wells]

If you're going to argue that the father has an obligation to the child because he helped to create it, then please explain why that obligation must stop when the child reaches adulthood. If being a creator creates the obligation, then the obligation should never go away because one would always remain the creator.

You gain the ability to support yourself as an adult. When you create a human being that has no ability to fend for itself then you have an obligation for its well being.

If a scientist creates a form is sentient life in a laboratory, is the scientist then obligated to care for this life? For how long? Forever?

If a scientist creates a sentient lifeform in a lab then yes I'd say he's absolutely responsible for its well being for the duration of its inability to fend for itself.

[Xanjori]

The woman doesn't hesitate to name the father on the birth certificate. She could say she doesn't know. But she doesn't. Because free money.

1) She can say she doesn't know, that doesn't change anything. She can be threatened with imprisonment or benefits cut off entirely if she doesn't provide information tot he Child Support Agency.

2) The money doesn't go to her, it goes to the child.

3) How many conspiracy theorist sites did you visit before coming up with this pile of rubbish?

[Drakain]

If you're going to argue that the father has an obligation to the child because he helped to create it, then please explain why that obligation must stop when the child reaches adulthood. If being a creator creates the obligation, then the obligation should never go away because one would always remain the creator.

If a fireman rescues a child from a burning building, he has in effect given the child life. Does this create a binding obligation between the fireman and the child?

If a scientist creates a form is sentient life in a laboratory, is the scientist then obligated to care for this life? For how long? Forever?

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The woman doesn't hesitate to name the father on the birth certificate. She could say she doesn't know. But she doesn't. Because free money.

Biologically, children aren't born with the ability to care or provide for themselves, but that's irrelevant. The father has to pay because the law says he has to pay.

The fireman analogy is silly. Anyway, the fireman isn't "giving" the child life, he's just preserving what the child already has.

If a scientist creates life in a lab isn't obligated to care for it for the rest of his life or at all, really. Unless there's a law that says he does. What does this hypo have to do with a father's legal obligations to his child?