0.23% of Players Defeated Heroic Garrosh

[cutterx2202]

Yes, it does seem that the devs need to use less instant teleportation and more in-game mechanics when designing their content. It's obvious that they do not really test some of these systems sometime.

Are you guys referring to timeless isle, the place you can instantly go to from anywhere with a trinket?

[Normie]

Are you guys referring to timeless isle, the place you can instantly go to from anywhere with a trinket?

A trinket that takes weeks/months for most people to grind? Per character? That trinket?

[cutterx2202]

Sarcasm works best when it is either deeply bitter or subtly funny. This is just oafish.

But, me, personally, I don't "look up to" computer game players, no matter how much "better" they are.

I think most of the envy in this game is imagined by the people who are the purported objects of this envy. Fantasized, even.

You put quotations around the word better. Do you have a hard time admitting someone is better than you at your class/spec?

[Raeln]

The thing I think a lot of people overlook is that, according to Blizzard, the AVERAGE player never gets to level cap. That's right, go google it if you don't believe me. Blizzard as stated that the AVERAGE WOW PLAYER NEVER HITS MAX LEVEL. So all the people on a crusade to get rid of heroic raiding because it isn't used by "the average player", should also be against any and all level cap content, because the average WoW player will never see any of it.

Maybe Blizzard should focus their efforts on lv40 content, surely more people will enjoy that?

Where have you been? there have been numerous complaints about top heavy MMORPGs in recent years. I've not been on that bandwagon as I think mid-level dungeons are useless but I have read threads where people ask for more content below max level.

It's not without merit, I'll give them that. WoW level is pretty fast - then after that final ding, all that is left is gear - unfortunately.

[Monoxide]

The current system is beyond terrible. PvE catch up revolves around grinding mobs for hours upon hours for true welfare epics, while teaching you nothing about your class, doing LFR ad nauseam and praying for decent RNG or having friends run you through content. PvP catch up revolves around doing dungeons and trading Justice Points for Honor Points or doing BG's with 10+ random idiots running around with no real sense of teamwork or direction and essentially every game is a 50/50 whether you'll win or not.

And that's still better than the alternative. Maybe you just didn't play the game in TBC, but if you were, for example, a Rogue that had no interest in raiding, and then Black Temple/Hyjal/Sunwell comes around, and suddenly you're complete shit because all the other Rogues are rocking T6 4pc and Warglaives, that's not fun at all.

You know what else isn't fun? Being a Warrior that's only interested in PvP but being forced to raid to get the blacksmithing components needed to craft a Stormherald just to stay competitive in PvP.

You know what else isn't fun? Not being interested at all in PvP, but being forced to do it because the PvP gear is better than the available gear and will allow easier completion of PvE content (such as my example of how the start of MoP went prior to being fully geared in raiding epics).


You sitting there trying to say otherwise won't change it. If you have no interest in PvE, you shouldn't have to PvE. If you have no interest in PvP, you shouldn't have to PvP. Overlapping gear between the two causes that problem.

Once again, thankfully Blizzard doesn't argue with people like you, and have decided to differentiate between PvP and PvE gear, and have decided to make each one a poor choice for the other.

[Normie]

You put quotations around the word better. Do you have a hard time admitting someone is better than you at your class/spec?

The passage I quoted said "because they are better."

I assumed this meant "better." Just "better." Like, "better all around person and Savior of Humanity." Because that's what it said.

[Count Zero]

So much misrepresentation of others' views in this thread it hurts. Less than 800 votes on the poll, just over 600 posts (good deal of those by the same relatively few number of posters), yet somehow folks think any given statement in this thread is representative of thousands/millions of other players.

[Raeln]

I don't want game design decisions led by shareholders, many of whom have zero vested interest in the game itself (or even play it). In this title, or any other, actually.

Do you?

They indirectly make those decisions anyway. If the game's popularity declines (IE: becomes less profitable), then shareholders will see smaller dividends and they just may well move their investments elsewhere - leaving Blizzard in a less than desirable position.

Catering to the smallest minority is dangerous. They've been lucky lately and were saved by LFR this expansion. I suspect that another heavy raid-only expansion will see many subscription losses. If I had a magic ball and could peer into the future and see that 6.4 is going to be just like MoP (all raid, almost nothing else), I'd mark WoW off my list of games and walk away now.

[cutterx2202]

A trinket that takes weeks/months for most people to grind? Per character? That trinket?

at 7500 coins, that's a few hours...

[muppetpilot]

Heroics ain't designed for the majority of the player base. There's a reason that heroic-type stuff tends to breed so much elitism: it's tough, and it should be. Peeps running heroics are getting the best gear, and they deserve to...as a matter of fact, they deserve a better drop rate too, in my opinion. Not sure if they're getting it but they should be.
Besides, would you rather have your endgame content consist of "everybody wins!" idiotic zergfests like in Guild Wars 2? Lol. At least WoW's upper-tier content actually requires thought and understanding of mechanics. Hell, even LFR works much better when folks pay attention, meaning folks doing heroics need to be paying attention to even the most minor things.
.23 percent of people clearing Heroic Garrosh sounds to me like it's working as intended.

[Stacie]

Under 5% seams about right to me, ask on the forum and most will say they have done it (most won't have they will just say they have for some reason). We have at least another 26 weeks of this expansion (based on new arena season length) so plenty of time for those nerfs to drop.

[Raeln]

But they are extremely restricted by what they can show off. Real raiders appreciate intricate and challenging fights. LFR doesnt. LFR doesnt appreciate the challenge and design of a fight. They dont get to show LFR what they can produce, they get to show raiders what they can really create

You are assuming that every dev that builds raid content is peachy happy to build raid content - you don't know that. You have no way to know that unless you are somehow intimate friends with every one of the devs - which I highly doubt.

They could just as well suck it up and rather they got to build versions of these mechanics in some type of elaborate 40 man scenario - we have no way to know. They may love to develop dungeons or other scenarios (scenarios actually look like they would be fun to design to me - they closer resemble ye olde D&D Sunday, if you know what I mean).

Besides, Blizzard cannot pay the upkeep for WoW with just the income from the "real raiders". They have to involve more of the playerbase in their endgame.

What now?

[Normie]

at 7500 coins, that's a few hours...

And let's say 600 rep kills. That's about 8 hours of continuous 100k dps (realistically 2-3x that) if done solo.

Sure, easy grind. Let's do it over and over again. Totally beats that stupid eight minute flight.

[Raeln]

Heroic raiding exists for player retention. With it being difficult, players have something to strive for and maintain interest in (especially so in the case of end of expansion raids like SoO). If heroic were to be easier, it would decrease the player retention and the content would not last long enough until the next set of content is released. This was proven by the buff or debuff in ICC/DS raids. This would also adversely affect normal content, and before you know it, people would drop their subs to wait until the next expansion. Players that play for other reasons than raiding are more likely to continue to play regardless of the difficulties of heroic modes, but to maintain the subs and interest of raiders (regardless of small number of completion) they need these difficulties.

Besides all of that, by the time the next expansion is out, you'll more than likely get to see the heroic mode by running through them at the new max level. Effectively nerfing them without having to do so while it is current content.

I'm going to completely disagree with this. Blizzard themselves admitted that when TBC rolled out, only 40% of accounts had stepped into any raid zone during Vanilla. It is obvious that 40% isn't retaining the majority subscriptions.

Since then, raiding has historically been low in participation, especially the last tiers. This is essentially the sole reason for all the catch up mechanisms that Blizzard keeps coming up with - to try to catch the general population up so they could possibly be able to try raiding. They perhaps have done the best job in MoP with LFR but even then - the numbers gleaned from the Armory still do not look good for raiding overall.

Raiding is not and has never been, some awesome savior of player retention. Too few players overall actually participate - the math is just not there man.

If anything, dungeons would have more of an impact on player retention due to their small group nature and we all know those have been completely neglected since 5.0.

- - - Updated - - -

How you arrived at that conclusion, given the presented information, is fascinating.

The 94%?

Why is that so fascinating? It's simple math. 100-6. 6% being the number of players with 1 recorded heroic kill.

- - - Updated - - -

People who raid LFR are done 2 months into a patch vs raiders who progress for the entire patch.

The massive spikes in subs each patch wasn't this bad before, it has become more extreme because more people are finishing

Versus the alternative where without LFR, those "LFR Hero" players just simply quit, rather than play an additional 2 months?

[cutterx2202]

And let's say 600 rep kills. That's about 8 hours of continuous 100k dps (realistically 2-3x that) if done solo.

Sure, easy grind. Let's do it over and over again. Totally beats that stupid eight minute flight.

You're forgetting the quests, dailies, chests, and rares that make 7500 trivial.

[Raeln]

No they weren't. Wrath and Pandaria's dungeons were a joke from the start and have only gotten easier. Even challengemodes are meh because of the lack of mechanics, simply buffing the 1 mechanic that exists doesnt make the boss anything had and it is only hard because of chain pulling buffed trash.

The later Wrath dungeons were a bit better, but that was mostly that people werent accustomed to thinking in dungeons, and the same thing happened again in Cata.

You can keep telling yourself that.

Wrath heroics as non-raid geared 80s were not a joke. They weren't quite a brutal as TBC's heroics, but there weren't just pushovers either.

I'm not saying that Blizzard has done a good job of making interesting dungeons since Vanilla - because they really haven't. Partially because raid gear keeps getting in the way and marginalizing dungeons very quickly.

[Klingers]

I dunno. I don't think heroics are meant for everyone. These kills are earned by the small percent of players actually willing to put in the time and effort. The percentages seem fine to me. Also I haven't killed Heroic Garrosh yet and I'm still content with our current progression.

I don't feel like I'm entitled to the kill. If we get it we earned it.

I don't even think these kind of stats are relevant. Unless you're personally invested in progressing yourself towards a heroic boss kill, it doesn't matter if 0.2% or 50% of the playerbase has reached that milestone.

Actually, I'll amend that: Even if you do go for heroics, the only thing that really matters is the progression of you and your guild.

[Glasse]

I dunno. I don't think heroics are meant for everyone.

This guy knows what he's talking about.

Cheers.

[Normie]

You're forgetting the quests, dailies, chests, and rares that make 7500 trivial.

You're forgetting the honored reputation requirement.

I have 4 characters with >50k coins and none of them is close to honored. I don't think more than one is even past friendly.

Have you even played on Timeless Isle? I wonder.

[Raeln]

Gear is artifical nerfing as the tier goes on. The 17th time you kill a boss it should be easier and faster so you can get to the boss you are progressing on.

Gear is the bribe to entice you to show up.

Remove the special, inflated gear and raiding dies - instantly. We would then see just how many are really interested in the "challenge". No, the vast majority of raiders are just interested in lording over the lessers with their better stats.

I'm sure you will claim that I'm wrong, but this old turkey has been playing multiple MMOs for nearly 15+ years. I've seen it many, many times over.

Remove the special gear bribery from raids and suddenly there won't be any raiders. They'll go do the most fun path to get the same gear - which would probably either be scenarios or dungeons, depending on the role they want to play (scenarios for dps, dungeons for healer/tank).