Why Is A Free 90 A Bad Thing To Some?

[Deleted]

The other option, my preferred one, is that they use this expansion as an opportunity to sort out all of the nonsense that comes before the current expansion. A level squash to retune early zones, an ability squash to clean up bars and sort PvP, a clean up of vanilla profession materials, the item squash to fix the expansion jumps and, essentially, work that'll create a sort of "WoW 2.0" where the game is joined up properly again.

Now this I can agree with. The leveling needs another redesign - not graphically, but the challenge level, items, professions, pvp, groups, etc. need change badly.

[Daeaye]

Getting a free 90 basically bypasses every other part of the game. Look at Azeroth and Outland, look at all those zones, think of all the quests in them all. All of that will be bypassed.

Now, I've been playing since Wrath - not as long as some, but longer than others - and I've got 5 90s. I hate levelling. I used to love it, then did it too much. Then Cata refreshed it, and I really did that to death. So it's dull again for me. I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to move one of my untouched level 40s moved straight to 90 because I've done everything many times and know I won't be missing out on much (not even the nostalgia anymore since it was all changed).

My concern about level 90s is towards new players. Believe it or not, people ARE still only just joining the game. Kids that only just meet the age requirement, or people who wanted to for a while but couldn't afford a decent computer to run it on (it's not the most demanding game, but my PC is pretty standard and is having trouble with MoP) or couldn't justify paying £9 a month or things like that, or people who simply never had the time before.
People who have never played through any of the 1-90 content and then being given a free 90 irks me.

I think, if the ability to get a free 90 was only unlocked once you already had at least one character at level 60/70 then it wouldn't be so bad. It's intended as a catch-up, really, for people who skipped Cata and/or MoP, since they were both received with very mixed opinions.


At the end of the day, we have noobs levelling to 90 who still don't know how to play the game, who never learned their race or class or anything anyway, so I don't think a free 90 will make the community any worse than it already is. And it certainly won't make me say "I'm not playing anymore because everyone, including me, got a free 90" - you don't even have to apply it, no one will be forcing you to. I don't think it will change much, and in terms of catching up to your friends, it is a good thing. But I can see why people are upset.

I'll use it, only because I've levelled so much that several characters are still stuck in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor because I just can't be bothered anymore, but I'd still like a high level Shaman or Rogue.

[Silverware]

this exactly, people don't learn to turn a dragon's tail away from raid while tanking, tank swap, dps down adds priority, cc properly, etc, while leveling.

Well. Maybe they should.

Instant 90's is a band-aide fix for the complete mess they made in Cata. Yes, Vanilla content needed to be updated. But in the process Blizzard should have made sure that leveling actually mattered. Right now it doesn't... which imo makes instant 90 acceptable, if only because Blizzard has clearly given up on making leveling meaningful.

Instant 90 is good, but we never should have gotten to this point to begin with. In a perfect world (of warcraft), there would be no demand for instant 90's, because leveling would be fun.

[Deleted]

My question to you is this:

If you believe skipping 1-90 is fine, and Blizzard believes the same, why are they not removing it entirely?

Really?

We have not worked this out yet?

It is called CHOICE.

Some people love leveling, some people despise it with a passion.

I already have all classes at 90 on my server and by my 11th alt I am getting a bit tired of the process I must admit

[Realsykes]

Well. Maybe they should.

Instant 90's is a band-aide fix for the complete mess they made in Cata. Yes, Vanilla content needed to be updated. But in the process Blizzard should have made sure that leveling actually mattered. Right now it doesn't... which imo makes instant 90 acceptable, if only because Blizzard has clearly given up on making leveling meaningful.

Instant 90 is good, but we never should have gotten to this point to begin with. In a perfect world (of warcraft), there would be no demand for instant 90's, because leveling would be fun.

I say that in a different context, as in, they essentially learn it through many dungeon and quest mechanics throughout leveling ALREADY, and yet, they hit cap and sit there with a thumb up their ass in end game content.

It's not that Blizzard hasn't given them the tools, I mean for christ's sakes there's a dungeon journal detailing abilities now, and youtube?

EVEN THEN, people come in to a fight and say they don't know what to do, and even going through it first hand on a first wipe, STILL don't get it.

It's not Blizzard's fault some people are just bad. BAD.

[Duridi]

Is it necessarily a bad thing... I don't know. As mentioned above to Jess, why is that content there at all if Blizzard believes it needn't be? The other option, my preferred one, is that they use this expansion as an opportunity to sort out all of the nonsense that comes before the current expansion. A level squash to retune early zones, an ability squash to clean up bars and sort PvP, a clean up of vanilla profession materials, the item squash to fix the expansion jumps and, essentially, work that'll create a sort of "WoW 2.0" where the game is joined up properly again.

They've broken the low level content entirely, and we know they don't have the resources to fix it. On top of that, they might not even know yet how to fix it. Do I want them to fix it? Yes I do, but I know they won't. They've just had Cataclysm, where they attempted a fix. At first, it seemed like it had gone well, then people started noticing it's flaws. It's a heavy job repairing it again. Personally, I've suggested starting by making all quests from 1-60 yellow, like the fishing and cooking daily, which will never turn grey or green. It's not much, but it takes away the frustration of quests turning green and grey on you before you have finished the zones. It doesn't take away mobs doing so though, but atleast it would feel less disheartening completing zones. I'd also suggest lowering the level in which you can obtain a quest, so you get access to higher level quests earlier, for a chance to challenge yourself while questing if you wish. This is a topic for another discussion though.

Yes, it is sad that low level content has fallen apart, and that we can't see a solution to this in the horizon. This is however quite disconnected to the level 90 boost, even though it might seem connected at first.

[vandalhart]

They should do what mythic did in DAOC. I think after a certain point, each new character you created had the option to start at level 20 or so. I think now at this stage of the game players who have 1 or more max characters should have the ability to start a new class at some high level (I mean 80 or 85)

[Barnabas]

There is nothing free about the level 90. You or someone else still must purchase the game to get it. That aside, it doesn't really bother me one bit. If a new player chooses to skip leveling 1-90 and they can't figure out how to play the class when they get to 100 then they will just join the lfr crowd.

[Deleted]

People seem to be confused.

Paying to get lvl 90 characters =/= Choosing to skip leveling

[Pua]

Really?

We have not worked this out yet?

It is called CHOICE.

Some people love leveling, some people despise it with a passion.

I already have all classes at 90 on my server and by my 11th alt I am getting a bit tired of the process I must admit

The argument is that 90 to 100 is the levelling. And, even if you do want to do all the earlier stuff, we know how this works; make it so unappealing and obnoxious that people will be more inclined to pay their way past it. Cynical.

They've broken the low level content entirely, and we know they don't have the resources to fix it. On top of that, they might not even know yet how to fix it. Do I want them to fix it? Yes I do, but I know they won't. They've just had Cataclysm, where they attempted a fix. At first, it seemed like it had gone well, then people started noticing it's flaws. It's a heavy job repairing it again.

We all know they won't fix it, and that the current development team lacks the talent to do so, regardless. But I don't buy for a single second that they don't have the resources. Of course they do. This is why:

All the earlier game needs to sort it out is retuning. That's it. The content is largely fine as it is, the biggest problems are retuning and retooling things like professions and, of course, experience gain. This is why I'm a fan of the level squash, because it ties in the other desires I have and is the only reasonable way to make the older content relevant again.

There's no redesign needed. Just retuning, and that doesn't take a lot of time at all.

Personally, I've suggested starting by making all quests from 1-60 yellow, like the fishing and cooking daily, which will never turn grey or green. It's not much, but it takes away the frustration of quests turning green and grey on you before you have finished the zones. It doesn't take away mobs doing so though, but atleast it would feel less disheartening completing zones. I'd also suggest lowering the level in which you can obtain a quest, so you get access to higher level quests earlier, for a chance to challenge yourself while questing if you wish. This is a topic for another discussion though.

Please PM me if you start that discussion, or see it somewhere I don't. I'd like to be involved in it.

Yes, it is sad that low level content has fallen apart, and that we can't see a solution to this in the horizon. This is however quite disconnected to the level 90 boost, even though it might seem connected at first.

I think they're interconnected, personally, but I take your point.

[Deleted]

Blizzard is mainly targeting the existing wow players with this change and not newcomers. The new player will likely want to see the content at least one time. The average existing player most likely already has some alts so to level once again means nothing to him but time loss. Blizzard seeks to allow players to enjoy alts easily and perhaps start anew on a different server or faction.

[Deleted]

"if you have a level 90 already, who cares"

I would concur on that statement. I hope there's a requirement like they had on Death Knights in the past that require you have at least one level 90 character before you can purchase instant 90's. :S LFR is already a bummer with noobish behavior, the last thing that needs is level 100's who've only ever spent 10 level's in the game. x_x

[Deleted]

The argument is that 90 to 100 is the levelling. And, even if you do want to do all the earlier stuff, we know how this works; make it so unappealing and obnoxious that people will be more inclined to pay their way past it. Cynical.

I am guessing you don't see the irony in you calling it cynical right?

I can give you a 100% fact, some people love leveling, some do not.

[Silverware]

It's not Blizzard's fault some people are just bad. BAD.

Even then though, so what?

Here's what gets me about the argument that some are making that says that instant 90s don't matter because leveling doesn't teach anything: There will always be bads. The warrior who gems intellect. The hunter who rolls on everything. The melee caster. But are they really a significant number? Has it always been like this? For every person who trains through a dense pack of mobs and dies, how many people figured out how to pull monsters one by one, or even CC them? Should we really be making decisions like this based on some people's inability to read? I don't think we're giving newbies enough credit personally, and the whole argument reeks of "well this person is shit, so THEY MUST ALL BE SHIT!".

But again, I just see this whole thing as a band-aide fix. Blizzard couldn't make leveling fun, so let's just bypass the whole thing. Leveling will still be boring, but now at least we can pretend that it doesn't exist.

[Donald Hellscream]

Because some believe there is an unfair advantage to this.. The truth is that there is no unfair advantage.

[Cleric]

I'll throw in my two cents with a few pros and cons which I perceive:

Pros:
Gives returning players the opportunity to "catch up" and start at a level playing field with their friends who may have continued playing all previous expansions.

Gives people a flavour of a different class and its skills without having to go through the tedium of low level questing with only a few skills.

The "DK starter style" of being a higher level than 1 and gaining skills through quests which teach you how they work is useful and better than dumping 20 skills on your hotbar and saying "Have at it". I don't remember this outcry when DK starters at level 55 (58 by the end of the starting zone) were introduced. After all, at that point it was only 22 levels away from max.

Cons:
I agree that multiple instant level 90's could be a problem. What's to stop people having a whole host of 90's purely for professions and milking the AH or flooding markets with items that may not necessarily have been there before? Did they remove minimum level requirements for professions or are they still in there?

Yet more payment features which were definitely off the table a few years ago.

People would be more tempted to simply buy a level 90 and skip the rich content that is there to be experienced at lower levels.

To sum up: I am of the ilk that believes 1 level 90 free with a WOD license is fine, but flag that character as non-transferrable to any other B.net account for 6 months after launch. That would stop people stockpiling licenses and transferring them to one account in the so-called "roundabout" way. By 6 months, markets will have moved on and there will have been a minimum of a second raiding tier resulting on less impact. You could also look at adding the option to buy at this point, again with a 6 month cool off period.

[Pandragon]

Cause people think that the game will be filled with noobs who can't play by just buying a 90. They conveniently forgot that the game is already full of noobs who can't play. This makes no difference.

Other people think this is the start of WoW going pay to win. Blizz has already said they will never do pay to win, they will sell mounts and pets and transmog gear but never any current tier epics.

[Deleted]

If you thought fotm rerolling was bad before this get ready for hell :P

[Duridi]

I think they're interconnected, personally, but I take your point.

I think the problem here is, we see the boost as two different things.

I choose to view the option as supporting a different playstyle. Roughly, I divide the game into playstyles like like questing, PvP, Raiding ++. The reason why I do this, is that I have been here for quite a few years now, and through those years, I've had different parts of the game which I have enjoyed. Others which I have not wanted to participate in at all. For example, during TBC I was all about raiding. The game started at max level for me. I could not care a second less about the leveling experience, and would rather have skipped it. As of now, I am the exact opposite. I level characters, then quit playing them when I ding max level.

This is possibly why I support letting people buy high level characters. I know exactly how it feels to not care for the leveling process. if you don't care for it, it doesn't give you anything, despite what some people seem to think.

I know I am lot alone splitting the game up like this. This is why they changed it so that you'll gain experience in battlegrounds. Originally, you couldn't, but players solely interested in PvP raised their concern about being forced into questing to be able to access endgame PvP.

To me, access to level 90's is a gift to raiders which are not interested in the leveling process.

This is why I don't see the problem allowing multiple level 90 boosts. It's a choice.

Should it have been an unlimited amount of 90's for free? Sure, maybe it should. I am not arguing that, but this is better than nothing.

If you break it completely down, the use of it is not really any different than starting at level 1, or 55 as a DK. It's basicly just another type of player, getting their starting point moved closer to where they want to be.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I think it will have few benefits and many many bad repercussions.