Combat system: WoW vs. AD&D

[Deleted]

Hi folks,

i wonder which combat system you favor the most between WoW and AD&D (Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, for example Neverwinter Nights)?

I pretty much think AD&D system is far more balanced, diverse and abundant of quite distinctive builds, combat options, spells, effects, etc.

Of course, it is more RNG dependent and those of you who don't like it will find AD&D very frustrating.

Your opinion?

[Sharde]

they are completely different systems.

it is like asking who has the best combat system, super mario or starcraft?

d&d is more of a round based strategy system invented for traditional rpgs and only mildly entertaining on the pc imo. i would prefer pretty much any combat over the d&d one. if the games using the system wouldn't have such great storytelling i would never touch them.

wow has the "standard mmo aimbot system". and while it is undisputed the smoothest of them all i would say there is a reason why many newer online games switch to a more action oriented 3rd person shooter style combat.

in short: wow is better for a single person game. for a rpg with a whole party i would prefer a standard rts method with a pause function or a real round based one like heroes of mm.

[Stir]

Oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear...

I don't think you know what 'AD&D' means. First of all: Neverwinter Nights is NOT AD&D. It's an adaptation of third edition Dungeons and Dragons.
Second: AD&D is in no means balanced. It has no PvP-component to speak of, and therefore, balance is not a primary goal of the system. The goal is diversity, not balance.
Third: D20 (the system Neverwinter Nights sort of uses) is a turn-based system. You'll always need to adapt it to real time for an MMO.

AD&D uses the 'THAC0' system (To Hit Armour Class Zero). Which means that it operates on a really weird trick; Armour Class (which is the base defensive stat) shows negative numbers; THAC0 shows positive ones. The higher your THAC0, and the lower the Armour Class, the harder it is to hit. If your THAC0 is 7, and the opponent's Armour Class is -4, then you need to roll an 11 or higher on your twenty-sided die to hit. Yups; it translates as 'base number THAC0 7 PLUS 4 (the -4 of AC) = difficulty class (target number)'
Basically: It's a clusterfuck.
Then there's AD&D's bizarre progression and notes of stats. What the hell does it mean to have STR 18/55? The latter number indicates a 'special value' on the stat, and you need to follow tables in the manual to discover what you actually gain, through some arbitrary design that has no actual incremental value, and pretty much makes the secondary number (55) completely systematically useless.

Then you've got weapon specialization feats. Which are dots with which you increase your chance to hit with certain types of weapons, but unlock nothing in terms of strikes with that weapon. And you need to do this for every single weapon you'll wield, and additionally for things like dual-wielding. Oh yeah, and for skills like 'Stealth,' 'Spot,' 'Listen,' 'Search.' But the amount of dits you can slot in those is very class dependent, and generally, you'll only slot 'Search' and 'Disable Device.' Maybe, just maybe, you'll slot 'Balance,' but most classes rely on some form of armour that gives such harsh penalties there, that it's just not worth it.

Spellcasting is Vancian. Which means you slot a number of spells per day, and when they're done, so are you. The effect: Spellcasters in AD&D suffer 'Kittendeath' syndrome until they can cast third level spells (which doesn't mean they are third level, since the levels generally scale up to twenty, but spell levels go up to nine). Until then, they can be mauled to death by anything. After that, they are completely and utterly god-mode... Until they run out of spells.

There are so many things wrong with AD&D... So, so many inelegant design choices and exploits, and the game system is so incredibly bland and unwieldy. The glitter in your eye at the thoughts of different builds and combat options... Dearie me, dearie me... That's just an illusion. AD&D does give the freedom to fail, but there are so little ways in which you can make something that is even remotely viable.

[Ielenia]

Oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear...

Ah, yes... I do recall my level 17 mage filling the 2nd tier of his daily spells only with 'shrink', and then shrink the monsters down to few inches in size and let the plate-wearing warrior stomp on them. It was fun! Utterly unbalanced, but fun.

[Stir]

Ah, yes... I do recall my level 17 mage filling the 2nd tier of his daily spells only with 'shrink', and then shrink the monsters down to few inches in size and let the plate-wearing warrior stomp on them. It was fun! Utterly unbalanced, but fun.

Oh, the exploits of classic RPGs...

We probably shouldn't go there, because it's horribly off-topic, but classic RPG exploits can fill libraries of creative and evil glee.