Preventing PvP on a PvE Realm: No More "Accidental" Flagging

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

He isn't wrong though. It is his game and you have no right to tell him how to play. If he wants to pvp it's his choice. If he wants to raid it is still his choice. If he wants to sit in the city and do nothing it is again his choice.


Interacting with other people =/= telling people how to play.



Blizzard made PVE server for people that don't want ANY random pvp to happen. If you have an issue with PVE servers don't play on them.

That isn't what I said. I didn't say I could tell him what to do, but pretending like your game is completely unaffected by others in an MMO is silly. You can't run around saying the N word, you can't take whatever you want, you might lose a mining node to someone else that is quicker, you might have to wait for spawns...

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Wintergrasp is outdated, just as Serpentshrine Cavern is outdated. Saying Wintergrasp is outdated doesn't preclude Blizzard from doing PvP zones in the future anymore than saying SSC is outdated precludes Blizzard from doing raids in the future.

And just as SSC and other old raids have since been modified in light of their outdated status, I see nothing wrong with modifying Wintergrasp due to its own outdated status.

Saying that they shouldn't change Wintergrasp because they're doing Ashran in WoD would like arguing that they shouldn't have modified SSC and other older raids to be more easily soloed because they're doing new raids in WoD, and since those new raids won't be soloable on release none of the old raids should be soloable either.

We are talking about the idea of WG, not WG being current content. Obviously the mechanics of WG is being reused in WoD, so its not an outdated concept by any means. And your comparison to SSC is flawed. WG is still used as a PVP area, while SSC isn;t used for progression raiding, or really even guild raiding at all. Its just used for Xmog and achieves. SSC really isn't close to the same as WG.

[darkwarrior42]

We are talking about the idea of WG, not WG being current content. Obviously the mechanics of WG is being reused in WoD, so its not an outdated concept by any means. And your comparison to SSC is flawed. WG is still used as a PVP area, while SSC isn;t used for progression raiding, or really even guild raiding at all. Its just used for Xmog and achieves. SSC really isn't close to the same as WG.

The first post I saw was talking about getting flagged flying over Wintergrasp (which these days often includes getting dismounted), which won't be relevant in WoD anyways.... but WG is still used as a PvP arena for the battles. Outside of the battles the zone is pretty much obsolete; it's no longer used as a primary farming location, because those mats just aren't needed for much anymore.

Ashran, as I understand it, is an evolution of Wintergrasp. Wintergrasp was designed as a PvP zone, but did so by making it a good (if not the best) place to farm crystals if your faction had control, by putting a fishing daily there, and by making it auto-flag everyone in the zone so that when you went to the zone to farm you had to be ready for PvP. The battle itself was usually well populated (at least on my realm), but was only a small part of the zone. Ashran, on the other hand, wont' have set battles, it will be continuous and fluid. I've also heard nothing about PvE objectives designed to try and force or entice PvE players into the zone to provide PvP targets (and, in one of the very few places where it's actually is a good idea, CRZ will help ensure that the zone isn't dead as a result). So saying they're using the concepts of Wintergrasp again is.... well, wrong. Wintergrasp is outdated; if it weren't, they wouldn't be completely redesigning how they're implementing the PvP zone in WoD (since the WoD implementation is nothing like Tol Barad or Wintergrasp).

In summary: The Battle for Wintergrasp isn't outdated, but the zone as a whole is, and neither will bear much resemblance to Ashran.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The first post I saw was talking about getting flagged flying over Wintergrasp (which these days often includes getting dismounted), which won't be relevant in WoD anyways.... but WG is still used as a PvP arena for the battles. Outside of the battles the zone is pretty much obsolete; it's no longer used as a primary farming location, because those mats just aren't needed for much anymore.

Ashran, as I understand it, is an evolution of Wintergrasp. Wintergrasp was designed as a PvP zone, but did so by making it a good (if not the best) place to farm crystals if your faction had control, by putting a fishing daily there, and by making it auto-flag everyone in the zone so that when you went to the zone to farm you had to be ready for PvP. The battle itself was usually well populated (at least on my realm), but was only a small part of the zone. Ashran, on the other hand, wont' have set battles, it will be continuous and fluid. I've also heard nothing about PvE objectives designed to try and force or entice PvE players into the zone to provide PvP targets (and, in one of the very few places where it's actually is a good idea, CRZ will help ensure that the zone isn't dead as a result). So saying they're using the concepts of Wintergrasp again is.... well, wrong. Wintergrasp is outdated; if it weren't, they wouldn't be completely redesigning how they're implementing the PvP zone in WoD (since the WoD implementation is nothing like Tol Barad or Wintergrasp).

In summary: The Battle for Wintergrasp isn't outdated, but the zone as a whole is, and neither will bear much resemblance to Ashran.

I'm sorry I just don't agree it should be changed. People still fight there, even out of the actual battles. As far as I've seen they haven't altered other outdoor pvp zones, so why is this one so special? Its not really the same as SSC. It'd be more like Gurubashi Arena or others like that. You aren't being "forced" there currently, so why change it? I've asked the OP multiple times, "why is this a good change that would benefit many people and the game?" But instead he either ignores me or straw mans or insults. Maybe you can answer.

[ComputerNerd]

The issue here is cowardly actions to force flagging against the choice of the affected player.
Standing on quest-givers etc.
Blizzard again having to make changes to fix a problem generated by players being bullies.

If you don't the change, then tough.

[Deleted]

I've always been on PvP realms, but I'm quite surprised how much this seems to be an issue for people on a PvE realm. So you tagged someone, big deal? Yeah, I get it, you don't wanna fight someone. But at the worst, it means you're running back from the gy. What's the cooldown on being flagged? 5 minutes? Go make a sandwich.

My thoughts exactly.

I don't really care what happens on PvE realms... I do however have a very hard time understanding how players on PvE realms aren't bothered with the fact that they have done endless of quests trying to sabotage the opposite faction, but they don't mind group hugging and singing kumbaya my lord just because there are other players involved.

[isaaru]

this makes me sad, isnt the whole point of timeless isle and WoD to move towards more world pvp? if you don't want to PvP At all make a Panda and Dont lvl past lvl 10 or 20 w/e it is. their is 2factions, and they Aren't friendly. getting ganked hopefully will allways remain a part of the game, otherwise, go play skyrim by yourself, am i right?

[Kelimbror]

this makes me sad, isnt the whole point of timeless isle and WoD to move towards more world pvp?

Umm...no. TI was used as an experiment for quasi dynamic content and instant catch up mechanics. The PvP was a feeble attempt at forcing world PvP because of whiners. It failed miserably and they realized it needs its own zone. I highly doubt you will see same faction PvP in the world ever again either.

[Steampunk]

Isn't the main premise of the game Horde vs Alliance? Also, how do you accidentally flag yourself?

I played on Mal'Ganis, where the Alliance original population was 1:10 Horde, thanks to the Goon Squad and their popularity at the time.

Story conflict is not PVP. The mentality that World PvP should be encouraged in all forms, because of story conflict... is beyond flawed.

As for accidentally flagging, people have been asking/have it happening to them for 9 years. Look around and see the many different way it can be done.

[thunderdragon2]

It funny you should mention this. Almost every time I see someone bitch about PvP.... they are on a PvP Server and got killed while doing PvP. They then say they were ganked. Just go check the forums its baffling how many idiots play on Tich and then bitch (heh it sort of rhymes) when they get killed. I welcome this change for PvE Servers, but if you really think this will change much you are mistaken. The same people will still bitch on the forums (seriously go look, its almost an exclusive thing to bitch about it if you are on a PvP Server) and the world will keep spinning.

been ganked countless times on a pvp server this xpac while leveling my monk thus i ended up moving to a pve server i got fed up with pvp servers due to teh crz tech since i was always a fan of if ou kill me ill hunt you down and kill you which sadly couldnt be done wiht the crz tech

[PosPosPos]

So when a player complains that PvP happens on a PvP server, they get told to go to a PvE server; but when a player complains PvP happens on a PvE server, they get told that it is unfair for said PvPers to transfer to a PvP server to PvP.

Logic fail.

So I am just going to leave it out here: if you want PvP, transfer to a PvP realm. Just like if you don't want to PvP, transfer to a PvE server.

[Sajek]

Accidentally flagging oneself can happen such as "oops, that's not a horde town!" or oops, "that's a guard, not a mob!" or the funnest part is "oops, that's a player!".

I like PvP but still play on a PvE server. I've flagged myself accidentally a bunch of times but the extreme majority of those times, it had no consequence (didn't get attacked).

I'm really surprised this is big enough of an issue for people to gripe about it.

[PosPosPos]

Accidentally flagging oneself can happen such as "oops, that's not a horde town!" or oops, "that's a guard, not a mob!" or the funnest part is "oops, that's a player!".

I like PvP but still play on a PvE server. I've flagged myself accidentally a bunch of times but the extreme majority of those times, it had no consequence (didn't get attacked).

I'm really surprised this is big enough of an issue for people to gripe about it.

Simply because this happens a lot more often than your own personal anecdotal evidence would suggest.

Try expanding your world view to include other people rather than just yourself.

[-Superman-]

So when a player complains that PvP happens on a PvP server, they get told to go to a PvE server; but when a player complains PvP happens on a PvE server, they get told that it is unfair for said PvPers to transfer to a PvP server to PvP.

Logic fail.

So I am just going to leave it out here: if you want PvP, transfer to a PvP realm. Just like if you don't want to PvP, transfer to a PvE server.

I may yet have to make this part of my signature line.

[Revolutions]

I thought this was World of Warcraft, not world of stare at each other craft

[Deleted]

How hard can it be to make a target not attackable if not flagged PvP. Considering it's already in the game, not hard.

[ringpriest]

My thoughts exactly.

I don't really care what happens on PvE realms... I do however have a very hard time understanding how players on PvE realms aren't bothered with the fact that they have done endless of quests trying to sabotage the opposite faction, but they don't mind group hugging and singing kumbaya my lord just because there are other players involved.

Many players on PvE realms seem to get bent out of shape over getting flagged because it interferes with their instant gratification mindset. They don't want to complete the quest in five minutes, they want to complete it right now. Anything that 'interferes' with their personal gameplay path is intolerable; they'd get equally upset if Blizzard had weather that actually affected anything. Catering to that instant gratification impulse is, imo, a big part of what's been destroying WoW.

[Kelimbror]

I may yet have to make this part of my signature line.

I called that out earlier in this thread. Tables have turned, now the double standards have set in. After all the years of hearing that BS when I didn't choose a PvP server, but had to go where my friends had already gone (and 9 years of not being able to get trolled by your own faction), now we get to tell the 'world pvpers'(gankers) on the PvE servers to take their ball and go home(pvp server). Their tears will be delicious.

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*snip*

'Because someone likes different content than me, they are bad and I must insult them.' What an ignorant view to have.

[-Superman-]

I called that out earlier in this thread. Tables have turned, now the double standards have set in. After all the years of hearing that BS when I didn't choose a PvP server, but had to go where my friends had already gone (and 9 years of not being able to get trolled by your own faction), now we get to tell the 'world pvpers'(gankers) on the PvE servers to take their ball and go home(pvp server). Their tears will be delicious.

I will be sure to provide everyone on my realm with Big Red Solo Cups

[Deleted]

I played on Mal'Ganis, where the Alliance original population was 1:10 Horde, thanks to the Goon Squad and their popularity at the time.

Story conflict is not PVP. The mentality that World PvP should be encouraged in all forms, because of story conflict... is beyond flawed.

As for accidentally flagging, people have been asking/have it happening to them for 9 years. Look around and see the many different way it can be done.

Imagen if an entire country would support war without anyone questioning it irl...

[Dawnshadow]

Isn't the main premise of the game Horde vs Alliance? Also, how do you accidentally flag yourself?

Back near the start of the expansion, a tank friend of mine was killing Pandaria rares (which were still pretty tough at this point in the expansion.) This particular rare was in a mantid quest area with dense spawns, so he was constantly getting more mantid, so he was using his AoE rotation. Warlock sees this, flags up, get hit by a cleave and that flags my friend. Lock proceeds to move back out of melee and fear him to death.

Hitting an instant attack as your target dies can also "helpfully" automatically target a flagged opposite faction player, which is incredibly annoying.