Maltheal

[Deleted]

Still don`t understand, why he turnes to bad. Please explain someone.

[Auxis]

I haven't played it, but from what I just read; with the strongest of Demons locked in the Soulstone, Human's were the only kingdom left other than the Heavens. So he decided to use the Soulstone to destroy all of humanity so that the Heavens would win the Great Conflict.

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Basically, he was altering the Soulstone to absorb the rest of the demonic life in Sanctuary to wipe out Humanity (as they have Demonic heritage).

[Frumpy Frumpy Frak]

Humans = half demon.
Demons = bad.
Therefore, humans = bad.

Angel logic.

[Fablewynd]

Pop a spoiler tag in the threat title, as I imagine the discussion will contain a lot of spoilers. I'll spoiler tag the stuff in my post that I think is relevent to the game.

According to the lore, he went 'mad' because he didn't know where the Worldstone had been secreted off to, and spent time brooding over it. He frequently left the High Heavens, and one day he just disappeared all together. This was after the Worldstone was destroyed by Tyrael. Blizzard make it sound like that was the tipping point the push Malthael over the edge, and so he simply disappeared, visiting Sanctuary and witnessing everything the humans are and what they do to each other (like cheating, murdering, stealing... essentially all the bad things humans do to each other) and saw how easily they are corrupted by demons. The lore states that Malthael believed that such power and such choices of good and evil should not belong to humans, as their time is so short and fleeting. And then there's the fact that Diablo came back to life in both Diablo II and Diablo III as a result of humans (though, you could argue it was a human that made the Black Soulstone, and thus his plan be possible.

The reason he's the 'bad guy' is that he's wanting to commit genocide by killing all the humans (trapping all human souls in the Black Soulstone). By doing this he believes the Eternal Conflict will end; there's no more Prime/Lesser Evils, and the humans will no longer be a threat.

To be honest, I didn't really feel Malthael was 'bad'. I can see his point. And, Blizzard had so much scope and opportunity to explore the angle that Malthael isn't bad. They touched on it throughout the beginning of Act V; as they are clearly showing how weak and horrific humans are by them turning on each other, and killing each other even when everything has gone to Hell. It feels like they were trying to show the worst side of humanity. However, I feel they fell short towards the end, where he's quite clearly dressed up as the villain (seeing as what he does during his bossfight). I was disappointed they didn't explore that. I wanted them to explore the way El'druin (Tyrael's sword) passed through Malthael in the cinematic. According to the law El'druin can cut through anything, but it cannot harm anything of just intent. There's so much juicy stuff there, because it could've passed through Malthael because what Malthael is doing may actually be just. In the game, though, they just explained that Malthael is in a state between life and death, and he couldn't be harmed unless you, as the player, attain that state, too. Not as juicy in my opinion.

Oh well.

[Deleted]

I was disappointed they didn't explore that. I wanted them to explore the way El'druin (Tyrael's sword) passed through Malthael in the cinematic. According to the law El'druin can cut through anything, but it cannot harm anything of just intent. There's so much juicy stuff there, because it could've passed through Malthael because what Malthael is doing may actually be just.

It should not really come as a surprise since story never was D3's strong point. It's not that the diablo universe doesn't have great material, but it just isn't realized very well. Instead you have to kind of google it on your own and take whatever happens in-game with broad strokes and enjoy the lore outside the game.

[Uoyredrum]

It should not really come as a surprise since story never was D3's strong point. It's not that the diablo universe doesn't have great material, but it just isn't realized very well. Instead you have to kind of google it on your own and take whatever happens in-game with broad strokes and enjoy the lore outside the game.

That's about the nicest anyone's ever said "Diablo 3's story was complete crap". RoS was better to be fair, but it still fell short in a lot of ways like Fablewynd said.

[Deleted]

That's about the nicest anyone's ever said "Diablo 3's story was complete crap".

"It's complete crap" means absolutely nothing these days, because that's what absolutely everyone says about absolutely everything.

It really wasn't good = IT'S COMPLETE CRAP!
It wasn't my favorite = IT'S COMPLETE CRAP!
It wasn't as good as I thought it could've been = IT'S COMPLETE CRAP!
It was better than I expected = IT'S COMPLETE CRAP!
I didn't explode in hour-long orgasm all over the walls of my room = IT'S COMPLETE CRAP!

Literally.

[rogoth]

I wanted them to explore the way El'druin (Tyrael's sword) passed through Malthael in the cinematic. According to the law El'druin can cut through anything, but it cannot harm anything of just intent. There's so much juicy stuff there, because it could've passed through Malthael because what Malthael is doing may actually be just.

the lore behind El'druin and the reason behind the cinematic, malthael "feels" his mission is just and righteous, therefore under judgement of El'druid, he could not be harmed by tyrael, but not only because of that, he was also channeling the power of death, and could not be harmed by any mortal weapon, regardless of whether his quest is actually just and righteous is another story, but the individual believes it to be, and that is all that matters.

as to why malthael is the big bad of the expansion:

decades ago, the worldstone was stolen, since it was malthael who found it originally, he was the most affected by it, and wanted to know where it was, due to how powerful the artefact was, when he learned that it had been stolen by inarius, and that it had been used to build a whole new world, one seperate from the eternal conflict of heaven and hell he became detached from the angiris council and became more interested in humanity as a whole, when the worldstone was shattered by tyrael it pushed him over the edge and he ultimately left heaven altogether, rumoured to haunt the halls of pandemonium trying to search for the answers to the unknowable mysteries of life and death.

it is speculated that he had seen all the events of diablo 3 when looking into the chalice of wisdom, and saw that the prime evils would be brought low, and that human kind, being the spawn of both angel and demon, were the last remnants of hell, he sought to eradicate all taint of demonic corruption, whereby ending the eternal conflict for good, and leaving heaven as the last true realm in existance.

[Deleted]

"It's complete crap" means absolutely nothing these days, because that's what absolutely everyone says about absolutely everything.

Yep, pretty much.

Hyperbole is what all the cool kids do these days. Majority of the people on the internet only exist in one of the two states of the extreme; either it is complete crap or it's bloody marvelous.

[Ravenblade]

I never understood one thing. The soulstone still contained all seven evils and was already at peak capacity according to vanilla in-game lore. Either Malthael applied some memory extension of its own to make space for thousands or millions of nano-demons aka human souls or there was still some small room. But if their presence was so small that there still was enough space for them then they couldn't have been a danger significant enough to make the case just. Unless justice only knows black and white but even Tyrael has proven that this isn't the case.

[Erlink]

I never understood one thing. The soulstone still contained all seven evils and was already at peak capacity according to vanilla in-game lore. Either Malthael applied some memory extension of its own to make space for thousands or millions of nano-demons aka human souls or there was still some small room. But if their presence was so small that there still was enough space for them then they couldn't have been a danger significant enough to make the case just. Unless justice only knows black and white but even Tyrael has proven that this isn't the case.

Was it peak capacity because it was full, though? Or was it peak capacity because the forced locked within was too strong to contain (ref. Leahs troubles doing so)?
If it is the latter, then both Diablo himself and Malthael might have been able to contain it, simply because they are another type of force entirely.

[thoruga]

It should not really come as a surprise since story never was D3's strong point. It's not that the diablo universe doesn't have great material, but it just isn't realized very well. Instead you have to kind of google it on your own and take whatever happens in-game with broad strokes and enjoy the lore outside the game.

I pretty much agree with this. Diablo story and lore are quite interesting and not bad at all. However you cannot enjoy it playing the game itself.
On another note, you create a thread about the guy himself and you spell his name wrong?

[Ravenblade]

Was it peak capacity because it was full, though? Or was it peak capacity because the forced locked within was too strong to contain (ref. Leahs troubles doing so)?
If it is the latter, then both Diablo himself and Malthael might have been able to contain it, simply because they are another type of force entirely.

Tyrael himself says at one point that the stone was not designed to hold that many souls for so long calling it a flawed creation. So it's basically down to capacity.

[Bisso]

That's about the nicest anyone's ever said "Diablo 3's story was complete crap". RoS was better to be fair, but it still fell short in a lot of ways like Fablewynd said.

Exactly my thought. It's a rated "M" game, yet they make a story suited for 5-10 years old.

Spoilers of Diablo 3 story. What made me roll eye through the first playthrough, and facepalm after playing it multiple times.

- Leah's background story. Every single dialogue she has in the first act can reveal she is the daughter/vessel of Diablo. It would have taken me in real life 10 minutes to figure out Adria's plan, kill Leah, save the world.
- Act2 is probably the worst act ever in Diablo history, the Lord of lies is the most obvious villain of all, did someone REALLY didn't see he was the emperor kid.
- Zoltun Kulle is one of the most powerful sorcerer, yet he is so stupid, lame, and keep doing Disney villain laughs after every lines he makes. That's without talking about this line: "You are an interesting one, I wonder if your friends know what you truly are [...] Oh, all will be revealed... In time. Muahahahahahaha." OH COMON!


Blizzard is always making their stories like this. They really like to think players are retarded and unable to figure things out by themselves. It's a shame.

[Mormolyce]

I wanted them to explore the way El'druin (Tyrael's sword) passed through Malthael in the cinematic. According to the law El'druin can cut through anything, but it cannot harm anything of just intent. There's so much juicy stuff there, because it could've passed through Malthael because what Malthael is doing may actually be just. In the game, though, they just explained that Malthael is in a state between life and death, and he couldn't be harmed unless you, as the player, attain that state, too. Not as juicy in my opinion.

Yeah that might've been a more interesting angle. Also I was disappointed in Adria's whole arc, turning out to be evil because hey witches are evil duh! And then being all "yeah well I'm evil now fight me as a big spider!". I was so excited to see her in vanilla D3 because she's an iconic D1 character, but to have her turn into an unsurprising betrayer was... unsatisfying. Not terrible just... eh. Wanted more from her. They could've at least made her more complex in RoS (or maybe we have to keep her alive against our better judgement to fight bigger fish) but we just bump her off to satisfy our thirst for vengeance.

And while I really like that we follow up the stories of each companion, they were very short and perfunctory. You build up a lot of expectation for what Lindon saving his brother or Kormac facing the Templar or Eirena unlocking the secrets of her past through all those dialogue trees, but they're resolved in short throwaway levels (which honestly seem like throwaway content they made at the last minute) in pretty curt, obvious, uninteresting ways.

The one interesting thing story-wise was the bit at the end where Tyrael voices his doubts about whether the player character will ultimately stay true to the angels or fall to the demons. Maybe an actual ethical fork in the final expansion? That would be a great ending.

Well... I'm not super mad about it but personally I would like D3 to have more of a story focus than it does. Same is true of D2 and D1 to an extent... I feel like the story has some promising elements and characters but it's always taken a back seat to gameplay.

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- Act2 is probably the worst act ever in Diablo history, the Lord of lies is the most obvious villain of all, did someone REALLY didn't see he was the emperor kid.

Well I thought it couldn't be him because it was way too obvious. Plus we already thought that and ruled it out earlier on.

Just like I didn't think Nihlathak was the villain in D2. Because he practically wore it on a tshirt. But TWIST! He was.

Durp.

[Fencers]

Malthael doesn't really turn bad. It's a matter of POV.

[Captainn]

Yep it's all a point of view. But honestly, in my mind, he just completely lost it in the end.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Malthael doesn't really turn bad. It's a matter of POV.

You could argue that about any Villain or anyone. Doesn't mean it's actually right


"Good is a Point of View Anakin."

~Palpatine

[Fencers]

You could argue that about any Villain or anyone. Doesn't mean it's actually right

One can't argue that about any villain. Though one can argue it of many well written villains.

Immorality and villainy are not necessarily the same. Where the former is a cultural ascription of Evil, the latter can be almost entirely debased. Though not outwardly immoral (POV/culture) and/or aberrant to any dualistic or singular state of nature.

[Deleted]

You could argue that about any Villain or anyone. Doesn't mean it's actually right.

The thing that makes "evil" an interesting concept is that nobody truly believes themselves to be evil. It is what makes all the cartoon and james bond villains so annoying, because few ever do evil things for the sake of evil; they do them for practical gains. Evil is often also not as simple as people like to believe.

The devil is in the details, and the truth lies in the shades of gray.