[WoD] Retribution Paladin Megathread

[Fredzilla]

Read https://twitter.com/Dakeshii/status/469941509878722560 and tell me we're not on the same page. We can't have equal dps to, say, warlocks because suddenly any fight we could use our utility on we'd become overpowered. The issue lies in that our utility is shared with protection and holy. Separate hand of * spells or give them spec-spesific powers and suddenly there'd be no excuse for our dps to be sub-par.

Either the fights need to cater to our utility (Buff our utility or design fights with it in mind) or revamp the utility.

I'm optimistic and calm because I know what's up. There's no point being bitter or complaining at them without valid points. All I am doing right now is waiting for Celestalon to respond again and take it from there.

I'm still behind the idea that some of the issues is how feedback is delivered to blizzard. Even just random people joining in on my conversation or posting in this thread is demanding things or talking as if they know everything. Feedback needs to be good, valid and constructive, not the way I see most people post here. Anaxie is a big exception because he has a clue compared to a lot of people.

Ignore this post of mine. To avoid confusion with vague verbage.

[anaxie]

Anaxie shout out much appreciated :'D

[Velshin]

The only thing you'd lose would be some Seal of Truth damage because of the time you stay in Seal of Righteousness.

It's not like we'll be GCD capped in the first or even the second tier of warlords. If the Seal of Truth damage trade is worth it (15% AP and 30% attack speed, it most likely will be) then there's no downside to it apart from more buttons to press. Seals already have a 1 second GCD in Mists of Pandaria (Atleast in 5.4, I don't know if it was changed somewhere in the expansion) so we would not be losing GCDs. Maybe the last tier depending on how stupid haste levels get.






Read https://twitter.com/Dakeshii/status/469941509878722560 and tell me we're not on the same page. We can't have equal dps to, say, warlocks because suddenly any fight we could use our utility on we'd become overpowered. The issue lies in that our utility is shared with protection and holy. Separate hand of * spells or give them spec-spesific powers and suddenly there'd be no excuse for our dps to be sub-par.

Either the fights need to cater to our utility (Buff our utility or design fights with it in mind) or revamp the utility.

I'm optimistic and calm because I know what's up. There's no point being bitter or complaining at them without valid points. All I am doing right now is waiting for Celestalon to respond again and take it from there.

I'm still behind the idea that some of the issues is how feedback is delivered to blizzard. Even just random people joining in on my conversation or posting in this thread is demanding things or talking as if they know everything. Feedback needs to be good, valid and constructive, not the way I see most people post here. Anaxie is a big exception because he has a clue compared to a lot of people.

You are not the only one who knows what is up. No offense but saying only you and Anaxie knowing what is up is kinda arrogance in your part. I respect both you and Anaxie don't get me wrong though. I know the main problem is that our utility being shared with both holy and prot spec we need something unique in term of utility that can make us stand up and make up for our weak dps but instead we have weak dps + good utilities that being shared with all of other specs. So please don't claim that you are the only one with Anaxie that knows exactly what is going on just because I'm not using tweet and not posting here much in retri thread doesn't mean I don't know much.

Don't take it personal. Again it's easy to be calm and logical when yourself admits it that you only played the spec for two tiers in this MoP which is what 1 year? it's not super bad when you are being screwed for only 1 year of playing the spec but if you are being playing the spec for over 7 years and each time you are being screwed for over god damn 7 years then trust me you will not be as calm as now really... It's super easy to be optimistic and calm when you just started playing the spec and now just noticed how weak we are but if you been playing back in the days when each expansion and each patch we are getting almost overhaul in almost every expansion and it takes like 3 or 4 months until Blizzard noticed how weak we are and then decided to buff us then you will understand how we feel. I don't mean to be harsh or rude but please don't pretend that you know how we feel when yourself didn't play the spec for more than 2 years or something..you just played retri in pandaria expansion. Sorry about that.

[Fredzilla]

As far as feedback goes, even though there might not always to best of suggestions and/or discussions circulating here, I can't help but feel that it's still miles better overall than what's going on in the official pally forums. I feel they almost have to by default spend more time looking there than anywhere else, which puts all the truly bad feedback right in their face. Maybe that's just me though.

[anaxie]

Dakeshi you cannot compare and say its 2 gcds but u gain 2 buffs it's not.

Final Verdict should be treated as baseline so pretend we only have TWO talents Emp seals and Seraph.

Emp seals costs you a 280% holy strike and you get a 185% mitigated one.

You lose gcds

You lose seal damage

and you push back HoP generators because it's common sense to know it will happen.

If AW 1 min goes live with Glyph? Emp seals is unuseable period. GCD locked.

YOU CERTAINLY have far less gcds below 35% with Hammer mixed in. I really wouldnt expect to seal swap then at all.

[nyc81991]

We are looking at a situation where our single target dps rotation will consist of Crusader Strike, Judgment, Exorcism, HoW with Wings / sub 20% and Templar's Verdict. Nothing interesting will happen within our rotation. The only "change up" would be when Exo proc's.

I find this to be a major issue. Ret is going to feel very bland if we don't get a proc.

Add that to the fact that our talents mostly suck and sharing all the same utility as Holy / Prot and things are looking bad.

[anaxie]

Never once did I say Anaxie and I are the only ones who know whats up and never once did I say you don't know much. If that's what you got from my post, you may want to read it again and see my point.

Regardless, my point was that a lot of suggestions are flat out dumb or wishful thinking. People always want their own spec to be fun and strong.

I guess I'll never be as experienced as you or anyone who has played retribution since Vanilla/TBC/WOTLK/CATA because of the time difference, following that logic. We never had a issue using a ret paladin in my guild and we even used 2 from malkorok onwards I believe.

In my "short" career of retribution I have never felt screwed over for playing one, and i've never felt like I had to be benched because of my spec. Retribution were fine for progression.

I really don't see how this "I have played since vanilla" argument has any value seeing as it's a different game/playstyle right now.





That's why I am saying we need to know the final number tuning or actually test it before we jump to conclutions. 30% AP and 15% attack speed may not be worth it now but may be worth it somewhere later during the beta.

You don't lose a GCD the first/2nd tier because I doubt we'll be GCD capped at this point. If we are then that's a huge design flaw since we'd avoid all haste pieces.

You lose some seal damage yes, but the buffs will definetly outweight that. We just need to see how it compares to Seraphim or Final Verdict.

During the first or 2nd tier you very well may not be pushing back HoP generators. I doubt our rotation will be filled from the moment we step into T17 raiding.

Below 35% you can just ignore the 30% attack speed buff since you won't need exorcism procs. You still get 15% attack power.

If the glyph puts AW on a 1 min cooldown then that will almost definetly be nerfed. They will see that during beta raid testing if it stays until then.

Then if Emp seals is ingored beyond 30% how on earth is it going to compete with a double damage finisher

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We are looking at a situation where our single target dps rotation will consist of Crusader Strike, Judgment, Exorcism, HoW with Wings / sub 20% and Templar's Verdict. Nothing interesting will happen within our rotation. The only "change up" would be when Exo proc's.

I find this to be a major issue. Ret is going to feel very bland if we don't get a proc.

Add that to the fact that our talents mostly suck and sharing all the same utility as Holy / Prot and things are looking bad.

Sub 35% :3

[Deleted]

Then if Emp seals is ingored beyond 30% how on earth is it going to compete with a double damage finisher
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Sub 35% :3

Indeed, not 30%.

[anaxie]

Emp seals had a chance when FV was 210% and TV was 210%

280% VS 185% is a laughable margine and FV cannot be dismissed because it's "too simple" because believe it or not if Emp seals is better by 1% dps but you have to micromanage like a mother fucker or you lose dps and take awareness away from fight progression and the raid frames that we have to use our Wonderful ultity on. What the actual fuck?

Nevermind Emp seals default doesn't work because blizzard deson't have a default debuff tracking setup to make it viable beyond a handful of players.

This is in my opinion the worst talent I have ever seen

[Deleted]

It will probably be the best choice in a fight with much AoE.

[anaxie]

Talents are supposed to be fun things WoD talents are unfun things that turns playing your spec into a clunky mess.

our tier with Sanc wrath , DP, and HA got it right

DPS , heavy AoE, PvP

The fun ends at level 100 for ret is the new slogan.

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It will probably be the best choice in a fight with much AoE.

not really. We never took Divine Purpose unless it was a fight where adds ARE the boss for AoE.

With no SUPER DS procs and the gap being insanely wide between holy TV and Divine storm. Rets aoe conssits of Hammer or do nothing atall. Ret unfortunately is not a class capable of AoE when WoD goes live. Just another huge hole in the class.

Infact it's very hard in WoD to expect your raid leader to drag you along. I'd be lying if I didn't say it's a disservice because it's pretty much looking like it will be.

[Fredzilla]

Well lvl 90 talents weren't particularly fun either =P

[anaxie]

You are not a class capable of AoE

You are not a class with Raid Ultility

We are looking like pathetic DPS class.

Is there even a reason to play ret in WoD?

[Fredzilla]

You are not a class capable of AoE

You are not a class with Raid Ultility

We are looking like pathetic DPS class.

Is there even a reason to play ret in WoD?

As much of a reason as there was in cata when we had our old mastery? Bout all I got right now.

[anaxie]

I wont be proud to be a ret. Next expansion. Thank you so much blizzard

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As much of a reason as there was in cata when we had our old mastery? Bout all I got right now.

nop we had cooldowns and raid buffs that you couldnt get unless you suffered another terrible dps class.

THAT is a huge difference

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I do believe Dake's point got confirmed....once again.

[Fredzilla]

I wont be proud to be a ret. Next expansion. Thank you so much blizzard

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nop we had cooldowns and raid buffs that you couldnt get unless you suffered another terrible dps class.

THAT is a huge difference

Yeah I suppose we were the lesser of two evils in t11, since arcane was the only other spec that brought that brought 3% raid damage, and they were somehow worse than us then.

[anaxie]

Inc TBC in Wotlk in Cata in MoP we atleast brought things

As of now we bring absolutely nothing except a leech.

[Maegor]

As far as feedback goes, even though there might not always to best of suggestions and/or discussions circulating here, I can't help but feel that it's still miles better overall than what's going on in the official pally forums. I feel they almost have to by default spend more time looking there than anywhere else, which puts all the truly bad feedback right in their face. Maybe that's just me though.

They spend zero time there. Even CM's spend little time there. So many threads there that should be deleted because of pure trolling and "omg ret worst evah" type shit that sit there all week. GD forum much more regulated than class forums.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The two biggest Cm's are on vacation.