Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Wingspan]

Hence they have equalised it.

Exactly my point... you were wrong about there being no difference/effect on the actual task.


That is all I was getting at.

[Deleted]

I missed this response.

Not chocolate specifically, but yeah, there have been more than a few times in my life where a product was reduced in some capacity and I decided to stop buying the product. I know full well it's what conglomerates do and I get to decide if I support it or not... sometimes yes, sometimes no (it's everyday life).

It was the magnitude of the reduction that was the point. Since flying is in this case a minor reduction in terms of times taken to reduce your goals, it seemed apt to compare it to the removal of a percentage of aspect of a chocolate bar that had parts reduced. Or are we going along the route that this chocolate bar is smaller so you can eat it faster therefore it is greater? If the overall calorie consumption and stimulation the the taste buds are the same then surely it would be greater?

Exactly my point... you were wrong about there being no difference/effect on the actual task.


That is all I was getting at.

The actual task being.... well the actual task. There is no difference between the task of fighting 1 monster and fighting 3 except the time taken to do the 3. It adds nothing to the experience or the fight by being able to do it quicker. Many people ( I'm not saying you are one of them ) perceive that flight adds to the actual fight (hence saying the task itself is boring) by being able to get to it quicker, wheras I feel that just means you get a boring task over quicker.

[WasherDryer]

Yep, so I'm level 97, 3 more levels, it's been fun killing pointless mobs just to get to nodes, going in circles instead of going in lines, and experiencing lore on the ground which I would have flown down to to experience anyway.

Now I want flying back.

[rebecca191]

I like pet battles, I actually find them fun. I do not enjoy ground travel at all. However, I do enjoy flying. When I can fly, I travel to a fun activity (pet battles) in a fun way (flying). If I have to use a ground mount, I have to do something I actively dislike to get to the fun activity. Archeology, I am neutral on the actual digging. Not particularly fun, but also not annoying. The rewards can be fun. So, fun travel, tolerable activity, fun rewards... worth it to me. Travel I hate (ground mounts) makes it no longer worth it. It's not just about speed to me even. I'd even rather travel on a flying mount that has a speed penalty than a faster ground mount. I just prefer the view from the air and the feel of the world when I am on a flying mount.

[Deleted]

Yep, so I'm level 97, 3 more levels, it's been fun killing pointless mobs just to get to nodes, going in circles instead of going in lines, and experiencing lore on the ground which I would have flown down to to experience anyway.

Now I want flying back.

With or without flying at max lvl you would not have been able to reach those points anyway without being lvl 100.

[rebecca191]

With or without flying at max lvl you would not have been able to reach those points anyway without being lvl 100.

However, the end would be in sight. A light at the end of the tunnel. That was the only way I could deal with leveling my first character on the ground in MoP. It was still bad enough I refused to do it on an alt, who was leveled with pet battles in old expansion areas instead.

[Deleted]

However, the end would be in sight. A light at the end of the tunnel. That was the only way I could deal with leveling my first character on the ground in MoP. It was still bad enough I refused to do it on an alt, who was leveled with pet battles in old expansion areas instead.

You can lvl without questing if raids mean so much to you. You've already found means of doing so.

[rebecca191]

You can lvl without questing if raids mean so much to you. You've already found means of doing so.

There'd still be a lesser amount of max level content to look forward to. Harder to get my money's worth. Essentially I'd be left with raids, dungeons, and whatever pets can be purchased on the auction house.

[Deleted]

But that is what you pay for, and you know what you pay for. If you do not think you're getting your money's worth why would you continue playing?

[rebecca191]

But that is what you pay for, and you know what you pay for. If you do not think you're getting your money's worth why would you continue playing?

It's why I paid to play for several months in MoP (I didn't play the entire xpac as I no longer had time for a dedicated raiding guild so I took a long break when I was getting bored). It's why I may never pay for WoD. It makes me sad because I could have been out there by now level 100 enjoying something new, new pets, new whatever, Garrisons sounded like something I'd otherwise have liked building up, if only there were flying (well, assuming I could get to 100 even with all the issues my friends are telling me they are having with constant lag and crashes in Draenor).

[Deleted]

It's why I paid to play for several months in MoP (I didn't play the entire xpac as I no longer had time for a dedicated raiding guild so I took a long break when I was getting bored). It's why I may never pay for WoD. It makes me sad because I could have been out there by now level 100 enjoying something new, new pets, new whatever, Garrisons sounded like something I'd otherwise have liked building up, if only there were flying (well, assuming I could get to 100 even with all the issues my friends are telling me they are having with constant lag and crashes in Draenor).

You will not like WoD. Stop playing step back and do something else. I had to re-evaluate my stance years ago and I moved from a raid-guild focused game to a purely RP type of play. I did not expect the game to change purely for myself.

[Wingspan]

It was the magnitude of the reduction that was the point. Since flying is in this case a minor reduction in terms of times taken to reduce your goals, it seemed apt to compare it to the removal of a percentage of aspect of a chocolate bar that had parts reduced. Or are we going along the route that this chocolate bar is smaller so you can eat it faster therefore it is greater? If the overall calorie consumption and stimulation the the taste buds are the same then surely it would be greater?

Tavel time is halved (or more) without personal flight... most would hardly consider that a minor reduction in time.

Some will be okay with that and some will not... just as some may be all for the smaller chocolate bars and some will not. Experience is individual in these matters.

The actual task being.... well the actual task. There is no difference between the task of fighting 1 monster and fighting 3 except the time taken to do the 3. It adds nothing to the experience or the fight by being able to do it quicker. Many people ( I'm not saying you are one of them ) perceive that flight adds to the actual fight (hence saying the task itself is boring) by being able to get to it quicker, wheras I feel that just means you get a boring task over quicker.

That bolded part is subjective opinion. Some would thrill to the experience of getting it over quicker and some would feel cheated (very subjective, hugely subjective).


While flight may not "add to the actual fight by being able to get to it quicker", it clearly adds to the overall experience of some players (which is also subjective). Queues for pretty much everything tend to support me on this... sure, there are those who will miss the experience of old-school group-forming, but nearly all on-line games (and most players in them) have embraced bypassing the tedium of group forming for the speed of queues.


"Experiencing the journey over the reward" is a romantic notion that is touted by many, but actualy embraced by few.

Most people simply like to get the good stuff faster (or else there would be no need for credit cards in the real world) and that is the experience that they shoot for. For many, quicker is simply a better experience.

[rebecca191]

You will not like WoD. Stop playing step back and do something else. I had to re-evaluate my stance years ago and I moved from a raid-guild focused game to a purely RP type of play. I did not expect the game to change purely for myself.

Except it's the game that has changed, not me. I found plenty to enjoy in MoP, even without being in a dedicated hardcore raiding guild. There is plenty I would otherwise have enjoyed in WoD - and the raid format changes would have been great for me - except, the game changed and they took away flying in 100% of new content, which is a change since we had flying, at the very latest, as soon as we hit level cap, for the past EIGHT YEARS. (And yes, I am aware some expansions had max level no flight areas but every single one also had some areas with max level content where flying was allowed)

[Deleted]

Tavel time is halved (or more) without personal flight... most would hardly consider that a minor reduction in time.

What are the figures of this. Actual figures, not speculation.

Some will be okay with that and some will not... just as some may be all for the smaller chocolate bars and some will not. Experience is individual in these matters.

But you seem to think that getting through the bar is better in all cases.

That bolded part is subjective opinion.

Oh really because certain people seem to think that having flight makes these tasks fun. Not my words either.

Some would thrill to the experience of getting it over quicker and some would feel cheated (very subjective, hugely subjective).

So far a luxury only previously afforded to flying not to things such as raiding.

While flight may not "add to the actual fight by being able to get to it quicker", it clearly adds to the overall experience of some players (which is also subjective). Queues for pretty much everything tend to support me on this... sure, there are those who will miss the experience of old-school group-forming, but nearly all on-line games (and most players in them) have embraced bypassing the tedium of group forming for the speed of queues.

Whilst I do not disagree with you.... do you have figures to back up this stance? Otherwise it is purely subjective.

"Experiencing the journey over the reward" is a romantic notion that is touted by many, but actualy embraced by few.

Most people simply like to get the good stuff faster (or else there would be no need for credit cards in the real world) and that is the experience that they shoot for. For many, quicker is simply a better experience.

Then there would be no need for raid bosses, since what we want to get to are gated behind a being not all of us want to face.

Except it's the game that has changed, not me. I found plenty to enjoy in MoP, even without being in a dedicated hardcore raiding guild. There is plenty I would otherwise have enjoyed in WoD - and the raid format changes would have been great for me - except, the game changed and they took away flying in 100% of new content, which is a change since we had flying, at the very latest, as soon as we hit level cap, for the past EIGHT YEARS. (And yes, I am aware some expansions had max level no flight areas but every single one also had some areas with max level content where flying was allowed)

I appreciate your sentiment but do you expect them to alter the game purely for you?

[rebecca191]

I do not think they should ever have changed it in the first place. I think it was a better game before and they made a bad change. Of course I hope they change it back and I am clearly not the ONLY person who feels this way.

[Deleted]

There are aspects of the game we all hope they reverse. Their LFR philosophy for one (despite not even venturing into it except for a snifter) is something I had wished they reversed. There are many aspects of design we do not agree with, but to quit over something such as this is quite mind boggling. Well not so much the quitting the tenacity in which you remain.

[rebecca191]

The ability to fly and experience the world from the air is something I consider to be a core feature/aspect of my character in WoW. I thought how cool would it be if I had my own one of these back in vanilla when I took a flight path. I always thought the world was better from the air. You know that Wildhammer Faction rep that you could get in vanilla but it was totally useless? I used to hope they'd make a use for it to get a flying gryphon mount. I was so freaking excited about BC and the addition of flying mounts. In the entire time I played the game... I just can't think of a better change they ever made. I really can't. Flying is just that great for me. I'm sad at the loss of something very fun and sad at the new pet battles, new achievements, other new stuff, that I could have experienced and enjoyed, if only they had not changed it so something I actively hate were required to do what I enjoy.

[Deleted]

That is pretty much opinion.

[rebecca191]

The preference for no flying is an opinion as well (though if I disliked flying as much as some of these posters there is absolutely no way I would have played the game for eight years with it). Everything it supposedly improves is all subjective, because there isn't universal agreement that what it changes is "better." Blizzard won't even think it's better anymore if it ends up hurting them financially.

[MoanaLisa]

You will not like WoD. Stop playing step back and do something else. I had to re-evaluate my stance years ago and I moved from a raid-guild focused game to a purely RP type of play. I did not expect the game to change purely for myself.

That's really great advice and mirrors where I am today. The end of Mists was my month or so of asking myself if what I wanted out of the game a few years ago what what I wanted now. Answer was no so I've got an entirely different thing to try in WoD which will be based much more around exploration, finally getting Loremaster and building my garrison which looks really appealing. It so happens that being on the ground for most of the expansion fits well with what I'm looking to do.

Anyway, reassessing your game every so often is a good thing because there are so many play styles available. I'm fond of saying it's a big game but in this respect it really is. Good post.

Note: And people really should stop with the Negative Waves (tm).