Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Sweetpeaz]

As if the vast majority of changes ever implemented haven't pissed off a significant number of people.



The devs have never had to play and it's always been their jobs. This is the case for all video game developers ever. Are you saying video games in general are fundamentally flawed because their makers don't pay for them and made the games as part of their job?

Also, Alex has done nothing to deserve lead on anything?
Jesus people were quick to forget that GC was originally a Marine Biologist with zero experience when he was brought into the Age of Empires series.

The old mantra of blizzard was that they made games for gamers, by gamers. Today, a significant portion of their player base are adults who work for a living, often much more than 40 hours a week. They balance work, personal life, managing a home, kids, and playing a game.

Blizzard is making a game for the unemployed masses of youth. The ones they want to dedicate hours per day, not per week to the game. Accessibility is what made this game so popular, moving away from the freedom of choice will only reduce their player base.

Perhaps some think that is good. I don't.


This game was populated by adults who grew up playing D&D, who played space invaders where to top level was literally the same thing over and over. We understood the grind. A majority of the content was laid out before us, and our personal commitment determined whether it not we made it. Most of us didn't. That's okay.

Today, the game is marketed and developed for a new generation of gamers with that in mind. However, they didn't grow up playing D&D or tide the same repetitious level for hours at a time. They are used to winning right way, and often have the attention span of a gnat. They are fickle and impatient.

My contention is that Alex and his buddies are more concerned with the younger people than the older. That's not good for me. Maybe it is good for the game? We will see.

[-Superman-]

Again people keep trying to masquerade their own opinion as either fact, or the opinion of the average player.

I think no flying will be good long term for the game

and I think it will bomb like a mother fucker. There ya go. We both have an opinion.

[wych]

and I think it will bomb like a mother fucker. There ya go. We both have an opinion.

Indeed, I have absolutely no issue with that. What I do have issue with though is people pretending they know what millions of other players will do and inventing statistics to back up their point of view.

[Drytoast]

Or maybe it's because WoW has enough quality to fall back on that it doesn't have to rely on one thing as trivial as flying to keep its player base and survive.. I'm very critical of Blizzard and about the farthest thing from a sheep. But I'm smart enough to acknowledge this fact, and smart enough to point out that you grasping at straws pretty hard.

In one post you claim how WoW is going to die because of no flying. In the next you say it won't die because sheep still play it. Can you be at least a little consistent?

Oh puh lease...

The unfortunate aspect of flying is that it effects a great deal of game play aspects. This isn't removing a stun effect, or the ability to move while casting. This effects transportation. The ability to get from A to B. Which everyone has to do.

Fucking with that for the sole purpose of adding needless time sinks to your game play to stretch out your game time is ridiculous. The problem with you is that you are in fact NOT critical when it comes to blizzard.

I don't think I've ever said that flying would be the death of warcraft in the sense that everyone would instantly quit. But what it will do, is after that initial "we just released an expansion" buff in subs wears off as people hit level cap, the amount of subs lost due to the realization that people now have to ground mount everywhere...is going to be bad.

And I would guess, after it's all said and done, unless blizzard reverses this shit, or puts in such drastic travel tools like instant ports or 3 times as many flight paths, anything that removes the timesink and the PITA gameplay of riding from one quest hub to the other after level cap...I'd say Blizzard will be looking at 5-6 mil in subs after it's all said and done.

The only question is, will another MMO take those players or will they just bleed off into other games?

The reality here is that gamers do not have the same mentality and patience that they had in 2004. It's a different mind set now. What worked back then will not work today.

Blizzard lost 200k subs in a the past few months. And as Wildstar nears release, I see them bleeding subs at a faster pace, if WoD is delayed much longer. Especially as these new changes to WoD have sunk into the player base. (with the exception of the new models, none of which look at all enticing) If blizzard doesn't release it by years end I could see their subs total hittin 5 mil or less, on it's release!

This is going to be a hard lesson learned by this new idiot in charge.

[Theendgamelv3]

I feel bad for the people who spent money on flying mounts and them not being able to use it in WoD content. the way they want to use them. I mean who wants to use the Iron Skyreaver as a ground mount? It isn't appealing at all. I mean yes they can use it in older content, but how much of your time will be in the older places? I highly doubt that a majority of the players who are able to fly and are max are in the older content. They should have stuck with the MoP model. No flying til max and in new patch areas.

[-Superman-]

Indeed, I have absolutely no issue with that. What I do have issue with though is people pretending they know what millions of other players will do and inventing statistics to back up their point of view.

Agreed. Like when they say tons of people will sub because of no-flying. I'm thinking, how many people make up a ton, and how do you have that many friends who confide in you? It's fun to speculate, but anyone who acts like their opinion is more like fact than opinion, is usually full of shit.

- - - Updated - - -

I feel bad for the people who spent money on flying mounts and them not being able to use it in WoD content. the way they want to use them. I mean who wants to use the Iron Skyreaver as a ground mount? It isn't appealing at all. I mean yes they can use it in older content, but how much of your time will be in the older places? I highly doubt that a majority of the players who are able to fly and are max are in the older content. They should have stuck with the MoP model. No flying til max and in new patch areas.

Agreed. No one is concerned with Flying in the Vanilla-MoP zones, people are wanting to fly in the Draenor zones.

[Infernix]

Indeed, I have absolutely no issue with that. What I do have issue with though is people pretending they know what millions of other players will do and inventing statistics to back up their point of view.

Cataclysm lost 2mil subs.

MOP lost 2.4mil subs.

If people suggest that WoD won't continue the trend, I merely ask for them to point at the aspect of WoD that they believe will not just halt the sub loss, but reverse it and start bringing people back into the game.

[Destruktion]

The reality here is that gamers do not have the same mentality and patience that they had in 2004. It's a different mind set now. What worked back then will not work today.

This here is the nugget of truth in your post. Whether or not this will test players' patience to any significant degree remains to be seen.

[rebecca191]

The reality here is that gamers do not have the same mentality and patience that they had in 2004. It's a different mind set now. What worked back then will not work today.

Yep... when I started playing WoW a few months before BC came out, I was in college and worked a few hours a week no more than that (even then I thought vanilla travel was terrible and there had to be a better way, but I wasn't bothered by things like attunements, resistance gear, etc). Those days are long gone for me. While I don't think I would have liked losing flying at the end of BC either, since I don't only like it for time saving I actually love it just as a mechanic, exploring from the air etc.... it's much more intolerable to me now that I have less free time, I am sure as heck not gonna waste any of it on this no fly garbage...

[Aktavite]

Cataclysm lost 2mil subs.

MOP lost 2.4mil subs.

If people suggest that WoD won't continue the trend, I merely ask for them to point at the aspect of WoD that they believe will not just halt the sub loss, but reverse it and start bringing people back into the game.

Ordinator seems to think that no-flying will reverse this trend.

[-Superman-]

Ordinator seems to think that no-flying will reverse this trend.

Nothing will reverse this trend. The game is 10 years old, and each new expansion brings fewer and fewer players to the table, and their lack luster lore creates a bigger deficit from 12.5M to the 7.1M today. Since the conclusion of Wrath, in a span of 4 years, we've lost around 40% of the playerbase.

[Paradyne]

Cataclysm lost 2mil subs.

MOP lost 2.4mil subs.

If people suggest that WoD won't continue the trend, I merely ask for them to point at the aspect of WoD that they believe will not just halt the sub loss, but reverse it and start bringing people back into the game.

People have all sorts of ridiculous theories about why WOD will bring people back, gimping LFR gearing to give raiding prestige again, removing flying, stat squish, Orcs vs Humans theme, RTS aspects being introduced such as Garrisons, new character models etc etc.

In the end nothing will reverse the trend of Wow losing subscribers at this point. Everyone who wants to try the game has already tried it, the game looks too dated to attract younger players and it appears those younger players prefer MOBA's such as League of Legends. There is also too much competition from rival MMOs, a lot of them F2P...whilst none of them will reach Wow's heights if each of them steal 500k-1 million players from Wow that will do a lot of damage.

The only option Blizzard has at this point is try to stabilize at a sustainable level of subscriptions. The approach they are taking with WOD is to try & keep the core player base who have been with them since the beginning by trying to move things back towards a more 'nostalgic' approach. Might work, might not but in any case WoW will be down to 3-4 million subscribers at best within the next 2 years, nothing will stop that happening.

[Aktavite]

Nothing will reverse this trend. The game is 10 years old, and each new expansion brings fewer and fewer players to the table, and their lack luster lore creates a bigger deficit from 12.5M to the 7.1M today. Since the conclusion of Wrath, in a span of 4 years, we've lost around 40% of the playerbase.

I agree.

I also think that no-flying will cause an additional drop off. Not much, but enough to get a clear statement from Blizzard about the future of it in game.

[Barkloud]

I agree.

I also think that no-flying will cause an additional drop off. Not much, but enough to get a clear statement from Blizzard about the future of it in game.

If I would have known before MOP launched that it would not add any dungeons I would have passed on the expansion. I think no flying will do the same.

Blizzard came out with an absurd statement and nothing else to cover their rear ends when the you know what hots the fans.

I foresee forum crashes in blizzards future.

Have you seen how many flying threads have been created deleted and recreated on blizzards forum sites.

There forums are like ours. You have 10 people upset by the change and all of them are arguing with a single no flying zealot.

Before Alex announced blizzards intent to remove flying from the game. You almost never saw a flying post.

[yeryerdude]

If I would have known before MOP launched that it would not add any dungeons I would have passed on the expansion. I think no flying will do the same.

Blizzard came out with an absurd statement and nothing else to cover their rear ends when the you know what hots the fans.

I foresee forum crashes in blizzards future.

Have you seen how many flying threads have been created deleted and recreated on blizzards forum sites.

There forums are like ours. You have 10 people upset by the change and all of them are arguing with a single no flying zealot.

Before Alex announced blizzards intent to remove flying from the game. You almost never saw a flying post.

I've seen polls even on these forums that are divided or even in favour of no flying, I think you are underestimating the amount of players who are ambivalent about the change and won't care as long as its fun and not overly annoying.

Also no flying posts have been popular ever since GC dropped the bomb in an interview with the instance podcast at blizzcon.

[Barkloud]

I've seen polls even on these forums that are divided or even in favour of no flying, I think you are underestimating the amount of players who are ambivalent about the change and won't care as long as its fun and not overly annoying.

Also no flying posts have been popular ever since GC dropped the bomb in an interview with the instance podcast at blizzcon.

Almost no one goes to the forums. Have you gone in game and talked about flying possibly being removed. People will tell you that you are lying. They have no idea.

Those pleople are going to flip

[Arbs]

Almost no one goes to the forums. Have you gone in game and talked about flying possibly being removed. People will tell you that you are lying. They have no idea.

Those pleople are going to flip

Ya but you make it seem like they are removing flying completely from the whole game, when really it just isn't allowed in Draenor at launch.

Did you happen to mention to them that you can still fly everywhere else just not in Draenor. They may not really care, they may ask why. but that is basically it.

Why can't we fly on Thunder Isle, oh their is deadly thunder. Why can't we fly on Timeless Isle, Since the sun never sets at the Timeless Isle, the flying mounts have forgotten the abilitiy to fly or something similar.

Just the tiny random detail will prevent those other from questioning anything, people have been complaining about Flying since Cataclysm. even in TBC / Wrath you had some complaining, but it was small it eventually grew than blew up in Cata.

Random funny detail: You are on the savage planet of Draenor. Flying would give away your location, so staying on the ground under the tree gives you a better chance of staying hidden.

[Sunseeker]

Nothing will reverse this trend. The game is 10 years old, and each new expansion brings fewer and fewer players to the table, and their lack luster lore creates a bigger deficit from 12.5M to the 7.1M today. Since the conclusion of Wrath, in a span of 4 years, we've lost around 40% of the playerbase.

The MMO market is growing and changing. There are literally dozens of stable, competitive MMOs on the market compared to at WoW launch there were only a handful. The F2P model is more widely accepted. Cash shops have largely moved away from P2W to sustaining the games through vanity and cosmetic goodies. Big name subscription model games have gone F2P or Freemium. It will not be surprising to see the same happen to ESO or Wildstar a year or two from now. A great deal of WoW's gameplay harkens back to a bygone era. XP splitting while grouped. Exclusive groups. Exclusive mob-tags. Group loot. WoW has never had spectacular PvP and it's PvE gameplay becomes more and more niche and more and more indicative of it's age.

WoD, flying or no flying, will not turn around the sub loss. By the end of the expansion, WoW will likely have lost another 2 mil subs, because quite frankly WoW is presenting gamers with nothing revolutionary to keep them playing, it's just MORE WoW.

[Strun]

Oh joy, going afk on flight paths is so much fun and immersive.

This.
This right here.

[Aktavite]

Ya but you make it seem like they are removing flying completely from the whole game, when really it just isn't allowed in Draenor at launch.

Did you happen to mention to them that you can still fly everywhere else just not in Draenor. They may not really care, they may ask why. but that is basically it.

1. When is flying in WoD going to be reintroduced? 6.1? Blizzard have since come out and stated that they aren't setting a time frame as they are going by "feel". Sounds ominously like Blizzard are hedging their bets.

2. Buy WoD get a free 90, because Blizzard wants more players at level cap. Thus the more players at level cap wondering why they can't fly. And what good is flying in the 'old world' when they are playing in WoD zones?