Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Osiria]

Here is a passionate summary of max level WoD content from someone on the beta. Seems awesome!!

It's funny that I come to this same conclusion by just reading about WoD content, and didn't get into bet. Couldn't agree more.

There's not much to look forward to WoD. They've done a few things right, but others... tend to grinding or progression.

Garrisons, lack of flying, all this "go out in the world" content thing which is just "pointless stuff to kill for the sake of loot, just like Timeless Isle", etc. It all kinda shows as if they were trying to increase the expansion 'life spawn'.

Usually, I would have to fight not to play WoW, but after WoD and a bunch of other crap coming from Blizzard, I'm fighting to find a reason to come back. It just doesn't feel like they're trying anymore, but simply spending the minimum amount of effort possible to release an expansion in order to profit.

[Evilfish]

So is there really ever an "end" to your activities that you feel no-flying impedes you?
Because it doesn't sound like you're in a hurry or race for anything so why slower traveling is such a game breaker for you I don't think I can understand.

Because after a while it gets boring. Repetition is the best and worse thing about MMOs. Where traveling is concerned it's just a pain in the ass. Especially after you had a nice soft place to park your ass since TBC.

[Louisa Bannon]

Saw that video. To summarize:
1. Great leveling experience. Stellar, in fact.
2. Whole game is Garrisons, and they will be cookie cutter depending on whether you raid or PvP.
3. At 100, you have one daily quest which is Diablo III style kill, kill, kill and accomplished rift bar fills and takes up the time of 5 dailies.
4. At 100, you can play Ashran which is completely unlike Alterac Valley and deadly dull.
5. At 100, you have 5 dungeons which are monotonous and 2 raid tiers to look forward to.
There is no real new PvP content. Content yourself with old content and the same devastating imbalances.
Can we still keep your money?

Now my opinion:

We won't get flight because the game is being put into sunset mode. Less content means they have to drag it all out any way they can instead of just going Free2Play. Blizzard wants to know if they can still keep our money. Grind, grind, grind apparently = value.

I think they need to enable flight at cap for the first toon through and charge gold for alts to learn to fly in Draenor at 90 and stop messing about. If they need to go Free2Play they need to simply do it and stop spin doctoring nonsense about how great it is to not be able to fly in zones in which there is nothing to do anyway. They should give us flight because maybe we can actually manufacture our own fun even if they can't do it for us.

I'll still buy it and play it a few months if I can fly, otherwise I can wait for Free2Play.

If they REALLY have 250 developers on this game, then they must just be bouncing off one another like the multi-ball phase of a pinball game, nothing else makes sense. WoD is at least 50% joke and 50% scam.

It's sad really. Chilton has given up. And they are so screwed.

And so are we, because we actually like the game.

[-Superman-]

Saw that video. To summarize:
1. Great leveling experience. Stellar, in fact.
2. Whole game is Garrisons, and they will be cookie cutter depending on whether you raid or PvP.
3. At 100, you have one daily quest which is Diablo III style kill, kill, kill and accomplished rift bar fills and takes up the time of 5 dailies.
4. At 100, you can play Ashran which is completely unlike Alterac Valley and deadly dull.
5. At 100, you have 5 dungeons which are monotonous and 2 raid tiers to look forward to.
There is no real new PvP content. Content yourself with old content and the same devastating imbalances.
Can we still keep your money?

Now my opinion:

We won't get flight because the game is being put into sunset mode. Less content means they have to drag it all out any way they can instead of just going Free2Play. Blizzard wants to know if they can still keep our money. Grind, grind, grind apparently = value.

I think they need to enable flight at cap for the first toon through and charge gold for alts to learn to fly in Draenor at 90 and stop messing about. If they need to go Free2Play they need to simply do it and stop spin doctoring nonsense about how great it is to not be able to fly in zones in which there is nothing to do anyway. They should give us flight because maybe we can actually manufacture our own fun even if they can't do it for us.

I'll still buy it and play it a few months if I can fly, otherwise I can wait for Free2Play.

If they REALLY have 250 developers on this game, then they must just be bouncing off one another like the multi-ball phase of a pinball game, nothing else makes sense. WoD is at least 50% joke and 50% scam.

It's sad really. Chilton has given up. And they are so screwed.

And so are we, because we actually like the game.

Could not have said it better myself. The more time I spend in Beta on the lvl 100 realm, the more I am learning just this.

[Deleted]

IRREFUTABLE FACT OF LORE & CONSEQUENCE:
Our main transportation is being slowed from 310% to 100%

In some ways accurate but by no means fact. My main mode of transport (flightpaths) remains unchanged. Yours may have taken a beating, but it is of little concern or consequence to me. I enjoy the flight, allows me to prepare my mind, my bags, take in the scenery and tamper down my pipe.

IRREFUTABLE FACT OF LORE & CONSEQUENCE:
This is a reduction of 210%. In total it is a 66% reduction to our over all speed of in game travel

IRREFUTABLE FACT OF LORE & CONSEQUENCE:
A 66% increase to travel time means if we used to spend 10 minutes an hour traveling in game, we will now spend 30 minutes an hour traveling in game

I would be very careful with these percentages and using the terms "FACT" and "IRREFUTABLE" especially when it seems that you have appeared to have made a greivous error in your calculations. The problem stems from how mounted speed is calculated. It is done so as a percentage increase of ground speed, so a 100% mount is actually 200% of ground speed. The problems with this are because of the reference point and are made evident when you apply numbers to them.

Take for example if we set movement speed at 5mph. This is what all characters for arguments sake, run on their legs. When mounted, on a horse the tooltip states 'increases speed by 100%'. 100% of 5 of course is 5 so added to the base speed this is a mounted speed of 10mph.

Next we shall take a hypothetical mount which moves at 200% speed. Going through the calculation previous. 200% of 5 is 10.

Added to base speed of 5 this makes a 200% mount move at 15mph.

100% = 10 200% = 15

The astute will notice that although 200% is double 100%, the mounted speed is not.

So 310% speed? 3.1 times the base speed of 5. Which is 15 plus the 5 base speed is 20.5mph.

100% = 10 310% = 20.5

So we will now be travelling at roughly 52% the speed. This in turn makes your calculation go from a 10 minute flight to a 21 minute ride. Of course as somebody else suggested, to insist that we'll be using a ground mount for all of that time is asinine. It would be like me suggesting that you would only ever be traveling by sky and so every time you needed to move any distance, even a few steps to the next herb or archaeology spot on the same digsite, you'd mount up, fly upwards, fly to the side, descend, dismount and carry on. We'll be using flight points to travel the bulk, then ground mounts for the rest of it. Which is going to cut this extra 11 minutes down quite a bit. Lets be generous and say 5 minutes, so an extra 6 minutes onto every hour.

If the idea of spending an extra 6 minutes an hour doing something is of such grave consequences, then I would feel sorry for you. Never total up how much time in your life you spend sleeping or on the toilet. If you did, you'd be drinking coffee 24/7 and have a colostomy bag fitted.

IRREFUTABLE FACT OF LORE & CONSEQUENCE:
Losing 20 minutes an hour of game play makes "no flying" the largest gate in the history of WOW

Really? Greater than.....
Levelling
gearing
raid lockouts
gearcheck bosses
Valour/conquest caps
Faction Reputation
RNG
Profession cooldowns
Attunements
Actual explicit gating ala Sunwell Platuea
Material grinding
?

Not that I'm complaining about these, I'm an RPG player. It's part of what I enjoy. I simply don't see how these accepted parts of the game are fine, but an extra few minutes on your travel time is the work of the devil Blizzard.

[-Superman-]

In some ways accurate but by no means fact. My main mode of transport (flightpaths) remains unchanged. Yours may have taken a beating, but it is of little concern or consequence to me. I enjoy the flight, allows me to prepare my mind, my bags, take in the scenery and tamper down my pipe.



I would be very careful with these percentages and using the terms "FACT" and "IRREFUTABLE" especially when it seems that you have appeared to have made a greivous error in your calculations. The problem stems from how mounted speed is calculated. It is done so as a percentage increase of ground speed, so a 100% mount is actually 200% of ground speed. The problems with this are because of the reference point and are made evident when you apply numbers to them.

Take for example if we set movement speed at 5mph. This is what all characters for arguments sake, run on their legs. When mounted, on a horse the tooltip states 'increases speed by 100%'. 100% of 5 of course is 5 so added to the base speed this is a mounted speed of 10mph.

Next we shall take a hypothetical mount which moves at 200% speed. Going through the calculation previous. 200% of 5 is 10.

Added to base speed of 5 this makes a 200% mount move at 15mph.

100% = 10 200% = 15

The astute will notice that although 200% is double 100%, the mounted speed is not.

So 310% speed? 3.1 times the base speed of 5. Which is 15 plus the 5 base speed is 20.5mph.

100% = 10 310% = 20.5

So we will now be travelling at roughly 52% the speed. This in turn makes your calculation go from a 10 minute flight to a 21 minute ride. Of course as somebody else suggested, to insist that we'll be using a ground mount for all of that time is asinine. It would be like me suggesting that you would only ever be traveling by sky and so every time you needed to move any distance, even a few steps to the next herb or archaeology spot on the same digsite, you'd mount up, fly upwards, fly to the side, descend, dismount and carry on. We'll be using flight points to travel the bulk, then ground mounts for the rest of it. Which is going to cut this extra 11 minutes down quite a bit. Lets be generous and say 5 minutes, so an extra 6 minutes onto every hour.

If the idea of spending an extra 6 minutes an hour doing something is of such grave consequences, then I would feel sorry for you. Never total up how much time in your life you spend sleeping or on the toilet. If you did, you'd be drinking coffee 24/7 and have a colostomy bag fitted.




Really? Greater than.....
Levelling
gearing
raid lockouts
gearcheck bosses
Valour/conquest caps
Faction Reputation
RNG
Profession cooldowns
Attunements
Actual explicit gating ala Sunwell Platuea
Material grinding
?

Not that I'm complaining about these, I'm an RPG player. It's part of what I enjoy. I simply don't see how these accepted parts of the game are fine, but an extra few minutes on your travel time is the work of the devil Blizzard.

I like the way you think. Also, anytime he uses the word "Fact", you can pretty much rest assured it is bullshit. He's had more threads locked for falsehood than I've had bans.

[rda]

I would be very careful with these percentages and using the terms "FACT" and "IRREFUTABLE" especially when it seems that you have appeared to have made a greivous error in your calculations. The problem stems from how mounted speed is calculated. It is done so as a percentage increase of ground speed, so a 100% mount is actually 200% of ground speed. The problems with this are because of the reference point and are made evident when you apply numbers to them.

He missed that the ground mount speed is higher than 100%, but he also didn't include into computations the fact that flight is direct and travel by ground has to go around obstacles. In sum, his estimate of spending three times longer on travel might not be too far from the truth. And yes, that's terrible.

[Deleted]

two great things with that

1/ no flying is great, greatest change since like.. idk,ever?
2/ with no flying, a lot of awful whiny kids will quit the game

double win situation I tell you

[rda]

two great things with that

1/ no flying is great, greatest change since like.. idk,ever?
2/ with no flying, a lot of awful whiny kids will quit the game

double win situation I tell you

You are really convincing, especially in point 1.

[Deleted]

well I didnt know opinions had to be convincing, rofl

i really welcome no flying as the best change in the game I can recall since I started playing in classic wow

[-Superman-]

well I didnt know opinions had to be convincing, rofl

i really welcome no flying as the best change in the game I can recall since I started playing in classic wow

Well, at least you recognize your post as an opinion.

[Tech Priest Bojangles]

2/ with no flying, a lot of awful whiny kids will quit the game

You might see this as a good thing but when people quit in droves like that, Blizzard tends to make crazy knee-jerk changes to stop the hemorrhaging of subs. If tons of people are leaving because of no flying.... guess what Blizzard is going to do to try and get people back?

I'm not saying it's 100% going to happen, i'm trying to say that sub loss should never be celebrated because it makes Blizzard do crazy shit.

[Louisa Bannon]

i really welcome no flying as the best change in the game I can recall since I started playing in classic wow

Everything you think it will do, it will not do. And if you simply wanted to use only ground mounts you could have been doing so all along, as stated by some in the immersion thread.

You know what, lots of you need to stop telling other players how to play or how to enjoy themselves.

I wanted more control over how my toons look after the new models are implemented. It looks like I am going to get my way. Many people argued against that, and yet what do they lose by what I gain? Nothing.

I want flight at cap for my first toon and to be able to fly with my other toons for gold after that. If I get that and you still want to tool around on a ground mount - absolutely nothing prevents you!

So, what do you gain if I can't fly? Nothing. I am still not going to engage just because I meet you on the ground. I have most chat functions turned off. I don't use trade. I don't seek players from my realm to play with, not ever.

I RBG exclusively through OQueue, although I might switch to the in-game function and continue on in the same fashion. I do use voice chat, Skype, for RBGs but if people annoy me I am more than willing to drop group for almost any reason and just keep going.

But if you get your way I may also simply not buy this expansion. And I really think I am not alone in that.

We have been offered some idiotic pipe-dream about engaging content at lvl 100 that will make us forget our grounded status. I call bullshit. It's Timeless Isle and Isle of Thunder all over again. And I never spent any time on either one because I hated the style of gameplay on offer there.

What I did like doing in the open world was flying from elite to elite to gather those mat bags. I also enjoyed soloing warbringers, It was a bit dull but there ya go, that's what I enjoyed doing: flying around Pandaria.

So can I fly aroudn Draenor and do the same thing? No. Not yet anyway.

So what will I be doing with my box and sub? Paying for the way you want to play? Not bloody likely...

[rda]

We have been offered some idiotic pipe-dream about engaging content at lvl 100 that will make us forget our grounded status. I call bullshit. It's Timeless Isle and Isle of Thunder all over again. And I never spent any time on either one because I hated the style of gameplay on offer there.

By the way, when this thread was just starting, there was no beta, not even alpha, and we might have theorized about what the endgame is going to be like. Now we can see that endgame in the beta (and if you don't have the beta, in the streams) and we see that it's (a) nothing terribly spectacular, and (b) there's not a lot of it - seriously, it seems that there is very little to do in the world in WoD, half your endgame outside of raids / arenas is garrisons, and that's saying a lot, because garrisons occupy your attention for a whole of 5 minutes per char per day. It's somewhat symbolic that in WoD, it doesn't make a lot of sense to be killing the same rare for more than once - the reward is there only for the first time. Where're all those endgame wonders that we are supposed to be enjoying traveling to while admiring the scenery from the gorgeous ground? Nowhere to be seen.

The cake is a lie.

[Nayaga]

two great things with that

1/ no flying is great, greatest change since like.. idk,ever?
2/ with no flying, a lot of awful whiny kids will quit the game

double win situation I tell you

1) No flying sucks, worst change since like... idk, ever?
2) with no flying blizzard will lose lots of customers, making realms empty and removing funds for future content development.

complete lose situation I tell you.

[Deleted]

He missed that the ground mount speed is higher than 100%, but he also didn't include into computations the fact that flight is direct and travel by ground has to go around obstacles. In sum, his estimate of spending three times longer on travel might not be too far from the truth. And yes, that's terrible.

Estimation based on speculation and false calculations have no place to be under the emboldened and enlarged heading of "Irrefutable facts". It is true I made no mention of the direct routes, but we were playing the numbers game for the speed based purely on the figures we could, using them as they stood and removed from other situations where variables and probability would make it difficult to get a clear situation. However, I went on further to add to it using the flightpoints to speculate on how this figure could be made even lower.

That part was speculative and I stand by it. I firmly believe that because the garrison granted ground mount buff, plentiful flightpoints and the understanding of the actual velocity of both ground and flying mounts, that the estimation- lets be generous and grant it such a title- of the increase of time spent traveling that he gave was grossly pessimistic. This second bit of course is simply an opinion, but it is one concocted using likely scenarios and balanced judgement and so I feel justified in giving voice to it.

It very may well be the case that it does end up being as bad as he declared, but it's not something which I believe will be. Until it is released and have played it or until someone does timed testing in a controlled manner I am going to refrain from claiming anything as being factual about it.

Rather than arrogantly present my own judgements as fundamentals I'm going to enjoy time spent Roleplaying, sorting out bags and finishing tasks I have neglected all this time. In the meantime, the sun will rise, the sea will continue to be blue and WoW players will still take any changes to WoW to be equivalent to Blizzard bursting into their kitchen every morning and pissing on their cornflakes.

[Nayaga]

I like the way you think. Also, anytime he uses the word "Fact", you can pretty much rest assured it is bullshit. He's had more threads locked for falsehood than I've had bans.

One "Fact" is ground mounts are slower than 310 flying mounts.

[Deleted]

the funny thing is people seem to get mad at no flying
but holy shit.. IF ONLY THEY KNEW .

My perfect changes for wow would include : no respec (ever), putting char stats yourself each time you level up and never being able to reroll them, no lfr, no lfd, no teleportation except warlock or mage ones, etc
Thats called a RPG.

[rda]

That part was speculative and I stand by it. I firmly believe that because the garrison granted ground mount buff, plentiful flightpoints and the understanding of the actual velocity of both ground and flying mounts, that the estimation- lets be generous and grant it such a title- of the increase of time spent traveling that he gave was grossly pessimistic. This second bit of course is simply an opinion, but it is one concocted using likely scenarios and balanced judgement and so I feel justified in giving voice to it.

Have you been on the beta? Here's a bit of reality from there:

* flights continue to be curvy,
* flightpoints aren't much more plentiful,
* mounts and similar obstacles continue to be pretty much a problem unless you are in a valley-type zone (as usual).

If you want a Draenor-wide garrison buff, you have to spend a building on that, and you have to do that for all characters that you want increased ground speed on. Getting the buff takes quite some time (once per account). Same for the portal building. (If you take both stables and the mage tower, you are out of large buildings.)

All in all, you can get a pretty good idea about how easy / interesting it will be to travel in Draenor via ground by doing the same in Pandaria. The idea that it is somehow better in Draenor is a fluke, nothing like that is going on.

[-Superman-]

One "Fact" is ground mounts are slower than 310 flying mounts.

That was not in dispute. Just the math used to exaggerate his position.