[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Arrowstormen]

The events that happened to MCU characters would be in the continuity.

Even if this whole Secret Wars business didn't seem like a strange move, if Fox and Sony suddenly decided to obligate themselves to make tie-in movies, it would probably throw their own on-going uses of the characters off track.

[Immitis]

I highly doubt Fox is going to negotiate away any part of their properties, and Sony would need to really be deep in it to do it, since Spider-man is one of the few things that still makes them a ton of money.

it does not make them a ton of money

[Arrowstormen]

it does not make them a ton of money

It very much does.

[Tierbook]

It very much does.

It used to make them a lot of money, the most recent Spider-man made 200mil in the US and just over 700mil world wide, when you work in marketing they probably didn't make much out of it. The same can be said of the X-Men and Fantastic Four franchise for Fox. Especially when the next Fantastic four bombs harder than John Carter.

[Kelimbror]

It used to make them a lot of money, the most recent Spider-man made 200mil in the US and just over 700mil world wide, when you work in marketing they probably didn't make much out of it. The same can be said of the X-Men and Fantastic Four franchise for Fox. Especially when the next Fantastic four bombs harder than John Carter.

And they have now derailed Spider Man twice with the same problems, same criticism, and essentially have killed their ability to run that franchise. Here's how Sony runs those movies.

Movie 1: Pretty solid opening, great cast, great writing, generally well received.
Movie 2+: Stuff every villain you can imagine int he plot. Hire people who clearly aren't good for the role. Make the script all over the place. Don't do anything that you did in the first movie well, just villains villains villains and bad writing.
*wait 5 years*
Repeat.

[Arrowstormen]

It used to make them a lot of money, the most recent Spider-man made 200mil in the US and just over 700mil world wide, when you work in marketing they probably didn't make much out of it. The same can be said of the X-Men and Fantastic Four franchise for Fox. Especially when the next Fantastic four bombs harder than John Carter.

Marketing isn't as expensive as some people make it out to be, the Spidey movies make less and not more, which is a problem, but they're still far away from not being pretty darn profitable. X-Men: Days of Future Past was a huge hit, the biggest hit Fox has had with their super-heroes, and Fantastic Four could easily turn out to be great too.

[Tierbook]

And they have now derailed Spider Man twice with the same problems, same criticism, and essentially have killed their ability to run that franchise. Here's how Sony runs those movies.

Movie 1: Pretty solid opening, great cast, great writing, generally well received.
Movie 2+: Stuff every villain you can imagine int he plot. Hire people who clearly aren't good for the role. Make the script all over the place. Don't do anything that you did in the first movie well, just villains villains villains and bad writing.
*wait 5 years*
Repeat.

There is no 3rd movie huh

[Falrinn]

And they have now derailed Spider Man twice with the same problems, same criticism, and essentially have killed their ability to run that franchise. Here's how Sony runs those movies.

Movie 1: Pretty solid opening, great cast, great writing, generally well received.
Movie 2+: Stuff every villain you can imagine int he plot. Hire people who clearly aren't good for the role. Make the script all over the place. Don't do anything that you did in the first movie well, just villains villains villains and bad writing.
*wait 5 years*
Repeat.

Honestly I'd say Spider Man 2 was probably the best Spider-Man movie Sony made, though probably because the focus was placed on one villain. It wasn't until Spider-man 3 completely screwed it up by having 3 villains show up at the same time for no good reason at all. The reboot had problems from the very beginning and only got worse when they went on to 2.

Multiple villain stories can work as long as it's not pure coincidence that they start causing problems at the same time. For example in the Dark Knight the use of both the Joker and Two-Face worked because it was the Joker's fault Harvey Dent became Two-Face. Another way to make it work would be for the villains to be working together from the start or one taking advantage of the chaos caused by the other.

[Arrowstormen]

I prefer the Amazing Spideys to the original trilogy, they were good for their time and are still pretty unique, but they're like soap operas that happens to have Spider-Man in them. TASM2 has obvious flaws and was bloated, but it wasn't really because of the villains. It was marketed as having three, but really it only had 1.5.

[Immitis]

[Kelimbror]

There is no 3rd movie huh

"2+"

Honestly I'd say Spider Man 2 was probably the best Spider-Man movie Sony made, though probably because the focus was placed on one villain.

See previous mention of bad casting...also losing Willem Dafoe in favor of James Franco...uggh. We'll have to agree to disagree. I thought it was terrible and I love Spidey. 3 was an attempt to destroy my childhood so I don't even want to talk about it. The first movies have been pretty terrific. Overall I liked Garfield and the tone better while Toby was a great Parker.

To be perfectly fair, I don't think they've done a good job with representing those characters or that universe at all. As much as I enjoyed the first movies of each style, they aren't really that good. Kirsten Dunst as MJ? No. So many things wrong. So so many things.

I am upset now. Thank god Marvel knows what they're doing with their 'real' movies.

[Arrowstormen]

I am upset now. Thank god Marvel knows what they're doing with their 'real' movies.

I wonder if that's the root of this ridiculous "there can only be one acceptable comic universe" mentality that seems to be going in some places.

[Kelimbror]

I wonder if that's the root of this ridiculous "there can only be one acceptable comic universe" mentality that seems to be going in some places.

People tend to prefer a quality product to be engaged by so I imagine it is. I can wholly say that my distaste for the other Marvel properties are because they are pretty awful. While not every on of the 'real' Marvel's lineup is amazing, they are collectively of a much higher standard than the others.

Is there something surprising in those statements? Or are you trying to infer something greater than the face value which isn't actually in what I said? If Sony, Fox, or any DC stuff came close to the overall level of writing, production, and reception as the multiphase initiative that Marvel has been doing with the larger universe....then I'm sure people would love all the stuff. But let's be honest....that doesn't happen.

Releasing crappy movies to flood the genre in an effort to get a piece of the more deftly handled pie isn't easily palatable by many people.

[Tierbook]

Will be interesting when the entire saga is done how much the collectors edition for all the movies costs.

[Arrowstormen]

People tend to prefer a quality product to be engaged by so I imagine it is. I can wholly say that my distaste for the other Marvel properties are because they are pretty awful. While not every on of the 'real' Marvel's lineup is amazing, they are collectively of a much higher standard than the others.

Is there something surprising in those statements? Or are you trying to infer something greater than the face value which isn't actually in what I said? If Sony, Fox, or any DC stuff came close to the overall level of writing, production, and reception as the multiphase initiative that Marvel has been doing with the larger universe....then I'm sure people would love all the stuff. But let's be honest....that doesn't happen.

Releasing crappy movies to flood the genre in an effort to get a piece of the more deftly handled pie isn't easily palatable by many people.

That's rather subjective. Sure the Wolverine movies weren't worth much, but both First Class and Days of Future Past were pretty great in my book. Sony has had some pretty nasty missteps, but it "only" requires one great movie to turn that around. We still haven't seen the DCCU "for real". People don't seem willing to have faith or even cheer for improvement, instead sticking with thinking that everything would be better if one company just absorbed it all, although that might just be the "wouldn't it be cool if everybody was in the same frame" factor.

- - - Updated - - -

Will be interesting when the entire saga is done how much the collectors edition for all the movies costs.

Enough to drive people to piracy.

[Immitis]

the first class trilogy has been pretty great so far, deadpool is looking to be fantastic if the test footage is anything to go by. fantastic four is.. ugh, but who knows theres still a slim tiny chance its good.

fox seems to know what theyre doing now, atleast when it comes to x-men.

sony and dc are the ones who seem to just not know what theyre doing at all

[cyberglum]

Well according to this page: http://marvel.wikia.com/Category:Cap...arvel_Villains Thanos is her top villain (assuming they're ranking by importance) and Ronan the Accuser is second. So... :P

That link refers to the original Captain Marvel's (Mar-vell) list or Villains, not Carol Danvers' enemies.

Just to be clear.

[Kelimbror]

That's rather subjective. Sure the Wolverine movies weren't worth much, but both First Class and Days of Future Past were pretty great in my book.

Sure. That's the point though. More people subjectively prefer the one 'brand' and the bottom line reflects that. And yes, the newest X-Men were pretty stellar....After a flood of absolute garbage. X-Men is a prime example of bad casting, bad writing, bad movies. Other than Magneto and Xavier, everyone else was a ho hum choice for the character. First Class is a completely different story, but yeah...

"wouldn't it be cool if everybody was in the same frame" factor.

That and getting to see what the people behind GotG and Avengers would do with X-Men. Much more capable hands.

[Dhrizzle]

The thing is if Fox and Sony have creative freedom over Spidey and X-men it messes with the MCU continuity. There is no way for example that the X-men film canon is compatible with the MCU. Spidey can just barely fit at a stretch.

We've got time travel and magic...we've got a Scarlet Witch in X-Men and MCU so I'm sure they could manage something.

[Falrinn]

We've got time travel and magic...we've got a Scarlet Witch in X-Men and MCU so I'm sure they could manage something.

Should Sony make a deal with Marvel, Spider-man could be rebooted into the MCU without any real problems in terms of continuity.


X-men are a lot trickier since the mere existence of Mutants has far reaching implications on the story universe. They'd probably have to reboot the franchise to even make it possible without literally pulling them in from a parallel universe. And even then they'd probably have to have mutants at least start out as being so rare that they've managed to slide under the radar thus far, and then have an event that dramatically increases their numbers.