[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Syegfryed]

The WHO reccomendation is 10-15% but we are not talking about healthy.

Look for Ronnie Coleman ( several times Mr Olympia Champion) : 4% body fat on competition and simply HUGE.

The thing us...you are missing the point: you are talking about extraordinary and I'm telling you that extraordinary DOES NOT imply breaking the biological laws that we know....that DOES NOT imply supernatural and as I already said ( I hate to repeat myself) if you play in the border you will eventually cross it.
Stopping a car at 100 km/h? Yeah you can say that's supernatural.....2% body fat and huge: totally not.

But given that you have had this discussion with basically every-single-poster in this thread I'm gonna do what most people should have done pages ago: you do you...I ..will do other things

im not missing any point, i know he is not super soldier, x-men, magic or radiation guy, im merely saying he is not "just an normal human" or a "normal guy".,

o one can see what he looks, what he do, and how is body composition is, and say he is "normal human"

[Makabreska]

The problem with Kingpin for me is this - his body DOES NOT looks like being almost pure muscles. He would be totally ripped all over with clearly visible pecs and all. So his body composition is highly unrealistic for that 2% or so body fat. But it doesn't really matter. It's a comic book world where Iron Man has a suit made of nano machines stored in hollow parts of his bones. Kingpin is big and strong, and that's enough of an explanation.



On the show itself, I really liked it. Jeremy was good as always, female lead was adorable and charming, mafia guys were genuinely funny. This gave entire show a pretty lighthearted feel for me, even with themes of vengeance and such. What I found most interesting was Clint trying to adjust to his normal life. Dude was fighting aliens in huge battles, traveled through time, entered some weird Infinity Stone realm and saved the world/galaxy few times. And now he is just trying to live normal life, since he was always the most "human" Avenger. It's pretty surreal to watch. Like, how do you even move on after all these things you have seen and done?

[Egomaniac]

having only 2% of his body being fat, while the rest being muscle, is not just "peak human".

Like someone who happen to grow another hand, another limb, you know, a genetic mutation.

Like I said, in the real world, he would be Superhuman. Comic Books are not the real world. He has no super powers. He is very strong...but completely in line with other peak humans. He is very durable....but that is just because he is over a quarter ton of solid muscle which, again, is something he did without the aid of gentic enhancements, mutations, or serums. He got that big through his own effort and determination. Is it realistic? No, but it's comic books.

[Zorachus]

Hawkeye was the MCU TV show I was least looking forward too. And now after watching it, it's my fav It felt more old school comic book, set in New York, fights at night in the city, silly thugs and bad bad guys. The famous super hero bringing on his new apprentice. And being set during Christmastime. It just flowed altogether so well, and was fun.

[Endus]

Like I said, in the real world, he would be Superhuman. Comic Books are not the real world. He has no super powers. He is very strong...but completely in line with other peak humans. He is very durable....but that is just because he is over a quarter ton of solid muscle which, again, is something he did without the aid of gentic enhancements, mutations, or serums. He got that big through his own effort and determination. Is it realistic? No, but it's comic books.

Clint Barton: not enhanced.
So far as we know in the MCU, Yelena and Natasha: not enhanced (untrue in the comics, FWIW).

The measure in Marvel for "regular human, not enhanced" is not "average human". Practically nobody can shoot like Clint Barton without enhancement of some kind; he's at the absolute peak of human capacity in that regard. But he's still within those limits. Pointing out that nobody in the real world can do what Clint Barton does is, as you say, irrelevant, because the Marvel universes aren't the "real world" in the first place. He's still "just a normal human being", in Marvel terms.

Marvel has to distinguish between "heroic but within hypothetical human limits and not enhanced in any way", and "subject to identifiable enhancements whether natural, technological, biological, or magical". Juggernaut's enhanced; he's literally powered by magic. Kingpin isn't. It's just hard work, training, and natural non-mutant potential

[Syegfryed]

Norman reedus and Gabriel Luna are rumored to be the new Ghost Rider. i Myself, would prefer Cage, but, as long he don't have a car im game.

Like I said, in the real world, he would be Superhuman. Comic Books are not the real world. He has no super powers. He is very strong...but completely in line with other peak humans. He is very durable....but that is just because he is over a quarter ton of solid muscle which, again, is something he did without the aid of gentic enhancements, mutations, or serums. He got that big through his own effort and determination. Is it realistic? No, but it's comic books.

like i said many times, im well aware he was not enhanced in any way, shape or form, im merely saying he is not a regular, common, or just a normal human, not even in comics standards, otherwise everyone could train and be like him

Kingping was born that way, he is not normal.

[Egomaniac]

Clint Barton: not enhanced.
So far as we know in the MCU, Yelena and Natasha: not enhanced (untrue in the comics, FWIW).

The measure in Marvel for "regular human, not enhanced" is not "average human". Practically nobody can shoot like Clint Barton without enhancement of some kind; he's at the absolute peak of human capacity in that regard. But he's still within those limits. Pointing out that nobody in the real world can do what Clint Barton does is, as you say, irrelevant, because the Marvel universes aren't the "real world" in the first place. He's still "just a normal human being", in Marvel terms.

Marvel has to distinguish between "heroic but within hypothetical human limits and not enhanced in any way", and "subject to identifiable enhancements whether natural, technological, biological, or magical". Juggernaut's enhanced; he's literally powered by magic. Kingpin isn't. It's just hard work, training, and natural non-mutant potential

Like I said, It's not realistic at all what Kingpin can do...but it is entirely in line with what other peak humans can do. Comic Book peak humans would put the even the most physically fit humans to shame. Bench Press 1000 pounds? Batman can do that with half the muscle mass of a world-class weightlifter and still swim faster than Michael Phelps and run faster than Usain Bolt. And, as Steve Rogers likes to say, he can do that all day. And he is an unenhanced human being.

And yet, as powerful as Peak Humans would be in our world, they are still substantially less than an actually Super-Powered human, such as Spider-Man who, in the grand scheme of powers is a middle-weight at best. But in our world...he'd be a god.

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like i said many times, im well aware he was not enhanced in any way, shape or form, im merely saying he is not a regular, common, or just a normal human, not even in comics standards, otherwise everyone could train and be like him

Kingping was born that way, he is not normal.

This is what you aren't getting...Everyone, in the comics, can train and be like Kingpin. Peak Human is achievable by otherwise "regular, common, or just normal humans". Bruce Wayne was born a regular human.

Daredevil is a peak human (Yes, he does have powers...but they affect his senses.. not his physical stats). Batman is a peak human. Nightwing is a peak human. The list goes on and on and on. They all got that way through training. Most "street level" heroes are just peak human. And most of them got that way solely through training.

Batman got his body toned to peak human condition, mastered every form of martial arts on the planet, achieved doctorate level knowledge of every scientific discipline, and achieved Sherlock Holmes level status as the "World's Greatest Detective". And he did all that in about 10 years. Comic books are not realistic. They aren't meant to be.

[Syegfryed]

This is what you aren't getting...Everyone, in the comics, can train and be like Kingpin.

examples? cause if everyone could, there would a lot of people like him.

[Egomaniac]

examples? cause if everyone could, there would a lot of people like him.

I gave you examples. Batman, Daredevil, Nightwing. All Peak Human...just like Kingpin.

Honestly, with all the muscle mass he has, Fisk should be even more powerful than he is.

[Syegfryed]

I gave you examples. Batman, Daredevil, Nightwing. All Peak Human...just like Kingpin.

they are not like kingpin, and only daredevil counts here.

Honestly, with all the muscle mass he has, Fisk should be even more powerful than he is.

thats why im saying he is not normal, that amount of muscle, his size and his body fat percentage? is just too obnoxious, he is above average human ,extraordinary, but nor normal .

[Egomaniac]

they are not like kingpin, and only daredevil counts here.

In terms of "Peak Human"... there's not a lot of difference between Marvel and DC. But if you want more Marvel Examples... Black Widow, Moon Knight, Night Thrasher, The Punisher, etc. All of them are peak human. None of them were born "special" in any way.

thats why im saying he is not normal, that amount of muscle, his size and his body fat percentage? is just too obnoxious, he is above average human ,extraordinary, but nor normal .

No one is saying he's "normal". We're saying he's Peak Human.

[Endus]

they are not like kingpin, and only daredevil counts here.

thats why im saying he is not normal, that amount of muscle, his size and his body fat percentage? is just too obnoxious, he is above average human ,extraordinary, but nor normal .

Seriously, you keep pretending that "peak human" means "standard level for the average fit guy or gal".

It doesn't.

It means at the absolute most extreme ends of hypothetical natural human ability.

There's nothing unnatural or exotic about Kingpin. He's genetically lucky in the same kind of way that a supermodel would be, and he's invested a ton of training on top of those natural gifts

Does he stand out among regular folks? Sure. So does Clint Barton, who also doesn't have superpowers. So does Tony Stark, who doesn't have superpowers unless he's using tech he built. Tony's mind is the equivalent, so to speak, of Kingpin's physique; entirely natural and falling within human potential, even if it makes them exceptional examples of "normal" (meaning unenhanced, in this context, to repeat) humanity.

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In terms of "Peak Human"... there's not a lot of difference between Marvel and DC. But if you want more Marvel Examples... Black Widow, Moon Knight, Night Thrasher, The Punisher, etc. All of them are peak human. None of them were born "special" in any way.

Slight caveat on Moon Knight, because nobody really knows what the fuck is up with him and Khonshu. Marc might just be crazy. He might be a God's empowered champion. Even Marc doesn't know, really. This is made more complicated because Khonshu, even if he's real, is vastly reduced in power and is often fucking with or upset with Marc over something, so there's very little consistency to establish firm baselines from. There's at least some storylines that show Khonshu very much being real and giving Marc very real divine magical power, but it's always possible Marc's just so fucking crazy he's magicking his delusions into reality.

[Egomaniac]

Slight caveat on Moon Knight, because nobody really knows what the fuck is up with him and Khonshu. Marc might just be crazy. He might be a God's empowered champion. Even Marc doesn't know, really. This is made more complicated because Khonshu, even if he's real, is vastly reduced in power and is often fucking with or upset with Marc over something, so there's very little consistency to establish firm baselines from. There's at least some storylines that show Khonshu very much being real and giving Marc very real divine magical power, but it's always possible Marc's just so fucking crazy he's magicking his delusions into reality.

Yeah Marc is a special case...but there have been times when he himself has been absolutely sure that Khonshu is not currently blessing him with anything and on those occasions...it's probably safe to refer to him as no more than peak human.

[Kyphael]

Um, looks familiar.



That says a lot about the extremities of Two-Face's transformation in the Nolan movies.

[Syegfryed]

In terms of "Peak Human"... there's not a lot of difference between Marvel and DC. But if you want more Marvel Examples... Black Widow, Moon Knight, Night Thrasher, The Punisher, etc. All of them are peak human. None of them were born "special" in any way.

none of those can take a car crash in high velocity and that final explosion, Kingpin also show feat of strength above normal human standarts and even beyond "peek human"

See how none of those characters you mentioned have only 2% of bad fat and a massive size entirely of muscle, that is not even close to what normal is.

No one is saying he's "normal". We're saying he's Peak Human.

except, people keep saying he is "just normal human", when he clearly is not.

ps: your piamges isn't showing.

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Seriously, you keep pretending that "peak human" means "standard level for the average fit guy or gal".

and you keep missing the point, like always.

There's nothing unnatural or exotic about Kingpin.

Dude look like a giant sumo fighter, and that is 98% muscle, and you are telling me with a straight face that is not "exotic", "unnatural" or "extraordinary" on him, come on man give up.

Your comaprison with Clint is laughable, when he is using hearing aid, showing he is indeed, a normal human.

[MrPaladinGuy]

Hawkeye was so bad even the final end credit scene was trash. It played out like a 90's comedic action movie, I mean even Daredevil was 'serious' compared to Hawkeye. I still can't decide which is the worse garbage series, Wandavision, or Hawkeye.

[PrimiOne]

Dude look like a giant sumo fighter, and that is 98% muscle, and you are telling me with a straight face that is not "exotic", "unnatural" or "extraordinary" on him, come on man give up.

Mate,you do really understand shit about comics.

The size it's an artistic license aimed at creating a threatening presence: he is THE BOSS, he is the kingpin. Wilson Fisk is 2 m tall ( 6'7") . No matter how the artist choose to represent the character ...he is 2 m tall ,so that means you can not see the scale as realistic ( I mean, come on, this is a basic concept).

So this is 2m (despite looking like 3m):



This is 2 m ( despite looking like ....4?)



This is 2 m ( now on a realistic scale)



The scale will change for dramatic effect even from one page to another in the same issue. The scale will change at the artist will.

So maybe this is your problem...you see this....



...and think: "That is a monster" because you don't understand no matter how it's drawn...it's still a 2m tall 200 Kg guy.

Is there any person in our planet with that characteristics? NO.
Are those characteristics out of the "peak human" concept? NO. Ronnie Coleman on competition is 1.97m 140 Kg 4% body fat.
Is completely possible that human phisiology can produce extraordinary beings like Fisk...at ITS PEAK? YES.
Is necessary a supernatural explanation to explain his morphology? NO.
Is he extraordinary? YES.
Can you interpret his size literally? NO.
Do I give up on this issue? Am I done with this shit? YES

[MCMLXXXII]

Do I give up on this issue? Am I done with this shit? YES

Hear hear.

[Egomaniac]

none of those can take a car crash in high velocity and that final explosion, Kingpin also show feat of strength above normal human standarts and even beyond "peek human"

I think you should read more comics and see exactly how much damage peak humans can take and how strong they can be.

See how none of those characters you mentioned have only 2% of bad fat and a massive size entirely of muscle,

All of them have extremely low body fat...just none of them have to point that fact out because they don't look like fatties. It's exposition. All of them are actually, pound for pound, stronger than Kingpin. Again, the sheer amount of muscle he has should really make him a lot more powerful than he is.

except, people keep saying he is "just normal human", when he clearly is not.

Again, no one said he is "normal" in the "he is just a regular dude" way. He is "normal" in the sense that he is not a mutant, alien, altered human, etc. He got the way he is solely through his own effort.

ps: your piamges isn't showing.

Weird, it shows up for me here... but here's another one:



"Peak Human Strenth"

Also, just for your own information...the image you used is actually from Ultimate Spider-Man...which is Earth 1610...whereas the "main" Marvel Earth is 616. Different version of the character. I only mention it because that Kingpin does not have nearly the same amount of feats that 616 Kingpin does...so it's hard to say if one os more powerful than the other.

As for his size in the pic...well, comic book artists have been known to take liberties when they want to make a character look more imposing. It should also be noted that the Spider-Man in 1610 was like 15 when he met Kingpin there...he's still a growing boy.

[Syegfryed]

I think you should read more comics and see exactly how much damage peak humans can take and how strong they can be. .

Again, i literally, never said he is a mutant, a super enhanced being, someone with super serum, or any other shenanigans.

I merely saying he is not just a normal human, no normal human can do what he do, and not every human can train and be like him, period. For something to be "normal" should be on the grasp of every normal human.

Big issue is how everyone is treating things in duality, he is either super or magically empowered or is average joe.

Mate,you do really understand shit about comics.

i understand enough to know he is not a "just a normal human".

and yes, please, give up this issue, cause i don't know what you and the others are trying to achieve on this matter, literally pointless.