[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Shadowferal]

Shang-chi was forgettable. Probably why not many remembered it.. Had they adhered to the comic book it would have been epic.

[Ivanstone]

We had 4 offerings last year. I’d say Eternals and Black Widow fall more on the weak side, but Shang-Chi and NWH are both top 10 for the MCU.

I really liked Shang Chi but NHW was pretty exceptional. Like Top 5 Marvel movies. I didn't single it out for that reason.

[Endus]

Damn, didn’t expect that to be the one you forgot. Most people kinda forget about BW at this point because it felt like a condensed D+ series.

I dunno, the stakes are personal, but I thought it was actually an excellent lower-key film. Florence Pugh is fuckin' fantastic.

The real issue with Black Widow is it came out post-Endgame, when it probably should've been made and released immediately after Civil War.

I think the humor in the film really gets undersold. I think I laughed harder in Black Widow than I did for any prior MCU film. Something about the dark, deadpan snarkiness really hits me. And it manages it in a way that really only humanizes the characters, rather than distracting from the seriousness of the plot (whereas in Guardians of the Galaxy it very much does; the clearest example is Starlord challenging Rohan the Accuser to a dance battle in response to his villain monologue).

Not saying it's the absolute best, but I liked it more than a lot of other MCU films. It's somewhere in the bottom half of my Top Ten, though I'm not interested in wasting the time to work out exactly where.

[AcidicSyn]

I dunno, the stakes are personal, but I thought it was actually an excellent lower-key film. Florence Pugh is fuckin' fantastic.

The real issue with Black Widow is it came out post-Endgame, when it probably should've been made and released immediately after Civil War.

I think the humor in the film really gets undersold. I think I laughed harder in Black Widow than I did for any prior MCU film. Something about the dark, deadpan snarkiness really hits me. And it manages it in a way that really only humanizes the characters, rather than distracting from the seriousness of the plot (whereas in Guardians of the Galaxy it very much does; the clearest example is Starlord challenging Rohan the Accuser to a dance battle in response to his villain monologue).

Not saying it's the absolute best, but I liked it more than a lot of other MCU films. It's somewhere in the bottom half of my Top Ten, though I'm not interested in wasting the time to work out exactly where.

This bolded bit. I enjoyed Black Widow, but I found it hard to care about it very much, so it took me awhile to watch it. I actually ended up watching it after Yelena showed up in Hawkeye. The sole reason I was so slow to watch it was because of when it came out, had this come out any time before end game, I'd have watched it much sooner (I agree right after civil war would have been best).

I loved Shang-chi, don't understand the hate it gets. It was great.

[Shadowferal]

Top 10 MCU for both reviews and audience score.

That means nothing.

[Shadowferal]

That the audience and the critics both gave it top 10 scores means nothing. Fascinating.

Regarding marvel movies and comics...have you met me?

[Ivanstone]

Damn, didn’t expect that to be the one you forgot. Most people kinda forget about BW at this point because it felt like a condensed D+ series.

I didn't forget about it. I just didn't feel the need to include it in the interests of brevity.

Black Widow and Eternals are noteworthy because they are pretty weak additions to the MCU. I'm quite happy to put SC in the top half of MCU movies but its not one of the best ones.

[Shadowferal]

Yep, you like to shit on them changing things even though that’s the core of the comics for fucking decades. Constantly doing new refreshes and versions. “But it’s not like my favorite run!!!” So? Why should they cater to you instead of the literal majority that disagrees with you?

You mean "why should they use the material that made the comics great to begin with, instead of the shit that had them go bankrupt?"

It's Disney. As long as it's kiddie friendly and flashy it'll make money.
Shang Chi...looking for Bruce Lee, got Jackie Chan and a maguffin. But the kiddies liked it.

[Ivanstone]

The real issue with Black Widow is it came out post-Endgame, when it probably should've been made and released immediately after Civil War.

I don't care when they released it. I do care that the actions scenes are mostly lame.

It is very funny at times. As a resume for Florence Pugh I give it an 8/10.

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Shang Chi...looking for Bruce Lee, got Jackie Chan and a maguffin. But the kiddies liked it.

I'd rather watch Jackie Chan over Bruce Lee.

[Triceron]

It's weird as hell.

"How could I possibly empathize with anyone who isn't the same gender/race/social class/nationality/religion/sexual orientation as me?"

That's . . . not a positive framing of yourself. The same nonsense is being tossed around by Pixar's newest film, Turning Red. Which is fantastic. But apparently, empathizing with a Chinese-Canadian teen girl (or with Kamala Khan, a Muslim-American; I haven't read the comics and couldn't tell you her specific ethnicity but I know she's Muslim) is too big an ask for some people, who probably had no problem empathizing with a literal cowboy doll or an anthropomorphic race car in a world populated only by intelligent vehicles.

Humans are inherently empathic. We'll empathize with inanimate objects. We'll empathize with arbitrary concepts, like the concept of a sports team. Saying you can't empathize with other human characters is a pretty egregious statement.

You can empathize without relating to them. Your example with Turning Red is exactly that, you empathize for the character and what they go through on an emotional level, but you aren't actually relating to them as an asian teenage girl since you've never had those same life experiences yourself.

Relating to a character plays off your own life experiences. Empathy doesn't need to be relatable, even though relatability is in many ways connected to it.

For example, a movie like Grave of the Fireflies has very empathetic characters, but their story, situation and culture are not what I consider to be relatable at all. There's no way I could actually relate to being a Japanese orphan struggling to survive in times of war, since I have absolutely no real life understanding of what it actually feels like to live in those situations. I can sure as hell empathize with them through seeing and hearing their story though.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You mean "why should they use the material that made the comics great to begin with, instead of the shit that had them go bankrupt?"

It's Disney. As long as it's kiddie friendly and flashy it'll make money.
Shang Chi...looking for Bruce Lee, got Jackie Chan and a maguffin. But the kiddies liked it.

There aren’t nearly enough pouches guns and fridge shaped chest in the MCU for them to be pulling from many 90’s comics which lead to there bankruptcy.

[BloodyAngel12]

Not really enjoyed many of the Tv shows either, its got to the point where everything is coming out a blistering pace that its all starting to blend together into one big gaudy homogenised blob.

None of the TV shows have hit Daredevil quality.

[Adamas102]

I dunno, the stakes are personal, but I thought it was actually an excellent lower-key film. Florence Pugh is fuckin' fantastic.

The real issue with Black Widow is it came out post-Endgame, when it probably should've been made and released immediately after Civil War.

I think the humor in the film really gets undersold. I think I laughed harder in Black Widow than I did for any prior MCU film. Something about the dark, deadpan snarkiness really hits me. And it manages it in a way that really only humanizes the characters, rather than distracting from the seriousness of the plot (whereas in Guardians of the Galaxy it very much does; the clearest example is Starlord challenging Rohan the Accuser to a dance battle in response to his villain monologue).

Not saying it's the absolute best, but I liked it more than a lot of other MCU films. It's somewhere in the bottom half of my Top Ten, though I'm not interested in wasting the time to work out exactly where.

Pugh was great, Harbour was a lot of fun, can never complain about Rachel Weisz, and of course Scarlett has always been solid in the role. I really liked the humor as well, and even despite the different origin Taskmaster had some really cool, well choreographed fight scenes. That being said, the whole third act action sequence and Dreykov in general was just some really sloppy, convoluted crap.

The invisible flying fortress, the pheromone lock that can be bypassed by just breaking your nose (or simply doesn't work if you go with explosives), the free fall through a debris field that culminates in an soft, uneventful landing. It also really sterilized (no pun intended) the whole Black Widow training process. Compare Natasha's flashbacks from previous movies to the few bland, super tech Widow training scenes we get in this movie.

Eschewing the whole covert operative theme that defines Black Widow's skill set in favor of typical over-the-top superhero action sequences felt like a big misstep. It's your opinion of course, but it seems hard to put it in the top 10 when you have so many other entries that really nailed it from start to finish.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I dunno, the stakes are personal, but I thought it was actually an excellent lower-key film. Florence Pugh is fuckin' fantastic.

The real issue with Black Widow is it came out post-Endgame, when it probably should've been made and released immediately after Civil War.

Nah, the real issue with Black Widow is it felt like the Russian B-Grade Winter Soldier Knock off. Complete with a Silent Mind Controlled Villain that's a perfect match for our protagonist. And they did the same thing to Taskmaster that they did to Deadpool in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. I could give two fucks about the genderswap. A female taskmaster could have been really cool. But when they decided to turn TM into a Silent Unrelenting Killing Machine Type.... they should have just used another character. Not only is it a poor use of a a cool character...it's just doing the exact same thing they already did with Bucky.

Florence Pugh was fuckin' fantastic...I agree with that much. She shouldn't have had to throw out her back carrying the rest of the movie though. Why she hasn't already been greenlit to star in (not guest star) her own D+ series is beyond me.

[JDL49]

Anyone else fell out of love with Marvel Stuff after End game? except maybe the Spiderman stuff.

With the movies, yes, to an extent. But all of the D+ shows have been excellent.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

You mean "why should they use the material that made the comics great to begin with, instead of the shit that had them go bankrupt?"

I'll answer the question with another question:

"Why should they use the so-called "great material" you vaguel reference when they can fairly consistently push out billion dollar box office films?". Obviously what they are doing is working.

As for "focusing on the shit that had them nearly go bankrupt"... None of the films in the MCU have been based on the story's from that period.

As a closer, you really have to love the guy that goes to every single Marvel film...and then complains about how terrible it was.

Like, if you hate them so much... just stop watching them. They're 27 films in... they're obviously not in a hurry to cater to you specifically. Especially since they seem to be getting your money anyway.

There's room for legitimate criticism regarding the MCU.... But coming into this thread just so you can "yuck" on other peoples "yum" is just a bad look. Move on with your life.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

None of the films in the MCU have been based on the story's from that period.

To do some pointless nitpicking, technically infinity war/gauntlet is from the 90’s though obviously that’s not the kind of thing that put them in the red in the 90’s.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

To do some pointless nitpicking, technically infinity war/gauntlet is from the 90’s though obviously that’s not the kind of thing that put them in the red in the 90’s.

Which is the thing that matters. They aren't adopting the Clone Saga or those other late 90's disasters.

And really, Infinity War/Endgame is such a very loose adaptation that it can barely even be called one. Like, the general concept of "Thanos wants the Gauntlet to wipe out half the universe" is still present... but that's about it. There's a few nods to the comics here and there...but it's basically an entirely new story.

[Shadowferal]

Disaster you say?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Disaster you say?

I also said "late 90's".

Infinity War is 1992.