[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Jotaux]

The only thing I'm curious about is how they are going to handle the "worthiness" angle. Steve wasn't quite worthy in AoU...but 100% worthy in Endgame. Vision, if Vision counts, was always worthy. So, how are they going to show that Jane is worthy? Or, alternatively, did the "worthiness" enchantment get destroyed when Mjolnir did? Can anyone use the hammer now? Did it bond with her specifically for a reason?

Was Steve unworthy in AoU? Or did he just not play his hand.

[Makabreska]

Was Steve unworthy in AoU? Or did he just not play his hand.

Yup, that's the theory going around. He could lift the hammer during party in Ultron (hence the nudge), but he decided not to embarrass Thor.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Was Steve unworthy in AoU? Or did he just not play his hand.

It's a matter to be debated. I know the Russos have embraced the "He was just trying not to embarass Thor" angle... but they didn't make that movie. I also think that if he wasn't going to play his hand...he wouldn't have made it budge at all.

I like to think that he wasn't quite worthy yet...because that shows a little character growth. I think Steve was still a little unconvinced of his own worthiness...which made him unworthy. By the time Endgame rolls around...the time for self-doubt has passed.

[Endus]

The only thing I'm curious about is how they are going to handle the "worthiness" angle. Steve wasn't quite worthy in AoU...but 100% worthy in Endgame. Vision, if Vision counts, was always worthy. So, how are they going to show that Jane is worthy? Or, alternatively, did the "worthiness" enchantment get destroyed when Mjolnir did? Can anyone use the hammer now? Did it bond with her specifically for a reason?

Like, we really know basically nothing.

Could be from the Multiverse; some alternate-reality version where Steve wasn't around in Endgame to pick up the hammer, so Jane Foster (somehow) did. Could be an evil universe option where the hammer's just up for grabs and has no "worthiness" enchantment. Could be that it was re-assembled without that enchantment; that Hela broke Odin's enchantment when she shattered it. Could be that Jane put it back together her own damned self (she's a major scientist and expert on Asgard, after all; if any human could, it's probably her) and that made it her hammer.

[SavoirFaire]

I'm just wondering who made the super glue that stuck that thing back together.

It’s part of the title. The power of LOVE!

[Canpinter]

Could be that Jane put it back together her own damned self (she's a major scientist and expert on Asgard, after all; if any human could, it's probably her) and that made it her hammer.

So she resembled a millennia old item that then fills with a far more determined and combative personality, and it gives her great hair? Are we sure the movies villain isn't seto kaiba?

[Ophenia]

Yup, that's the theory going around. He could lift the hammer during party in Ultron (hence the nudge), but he decided not to embarrass Thor.

In fact it was something said by the Russos brothers.
But Christopher Markus’ view was that he still « had the secret of Tony’s parents’ death to resolve » before being completely worthy.
So I guess there is no formal explanation at Marvel for that, so we can chose whichever explanation we prefer I guess

[Svifnymr]

The only thing I'm curious about is how they are going to handle the "worthiness" angle. Steve wasn't quite worthy in AoU...but 100% worthy in Endgame. Vision, if Vision counts, was always worthy. So, how are they going to show that Jane is worthy? Or, alternatively, did the "worthiness" enchantment get destroyed when Mjolnir did? Can anyone use the hammer now? Did it bond with her specifically for a reason?

We just have to accept that it's "whatever the plot wants" in many ways. Cap certainly didn't gain the outfit of Thor when he took up Mjolnir, and Rag said Thor's powers were never bound to the hammer anyway, so Odin's proclaimation was time gated or a test without magical reinforcement or died with him maybe, who knows. So Cap was worthy enough to wield the hammer, but maybe not enough to gain all the powers and the outfit.

For this story, shattered Mjolnir is back together and Jane becomes Thor when she takes it up. Same way Thor is "not the god of hammers", but tosses lightning powers around, even though he's the god of Thunder. It's just different writers tweaking things as needed for the story they want to tell.

[Syegfryed]

I never liked how they act like Thor name is a title and she become "Thor", is like someone putting the iron suit and becoming "Stark", grant it, didn't read many of his comics but i don't remember Beta Ray Bill being called "Thor"

If we assume she's from somewhere else in the Multiverse, it could just be that Odin is still alive and he altered the enchantment to allow her to use it for some reason. He's the only one that can do so, AFAIK.

That would be the only good explanation imo, cause the storyline from the comics take other Thors from different timelines exactly because Gorr is just too much for one to handle alone.

2 is too few either, so i don't know how they gonna do, if they will bring old king thor too.

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So she resembled a millennia old item that then fills with a far more determined and combative personality, and it gives her great hair? Are we sure the movies villain isn't seto kaiba?

Yep, that was a good one

[Svifnymr]

Why couldn’t Jane be worthy again?

Plenty of people could be "worthy" depending on the criteria, it's a big multiverse. It was supposed to be a test for Thor, by Odin, and then last movie said "no, the power was in you all along", so it wasn't really that maybe. I mean, Mythology-Thor had no worthy requirement for Mjolnir, and comic Thor ditched the Blake thing but kept the worthy thing whenever the plot called for it.

[Endus]

I never liked how they act like Thor name is a title and she become "Thor", is like someone putting the iron suit and becoming "Stark", grant it, didn't read many of his comics but i don't remember Beta Ray Bill being called "Thor"

Blame Odin; he's the one who wrote the enchantment on Mjolnir.

Also, there were reams of people called Thor who weren't (or didn't think they were) the Odinson, literally. That's how Thor started, in the Marvel universe, before it was retconned that it was all a spell by Odin. Thor started out as a mantle you took on, in the comics, not as a single individual born of Odin and Frigg, Asgardian by birth.

Frankly, it's a deeply silly concern to even have, regarding the comics.

For example; the Thor Corps; https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Thor_Corps_(Earth-616)

Where three Thors (including Beta Ray Bill and no alternate universes) teamed up. Three Thors, all wielding the Power of Thor, all at the same time.

That would be the only good explanation imo, cause the storyline from the comics take other Thors from different timelines exactly because Gorr is just too much for one to handle alone.

2 is too few either, so i don't know how they gonna do, if they will bring old king thor too.

You folks keep thinking we're getting the end of Gorr the God-Butcher's story, for some reason, and I think it's way more likely we're getting an introduction, like the comic version where kills a bunch of Earth's gods and then tries to jump Thor in Viking-era Iceland while he's partying on Midgard and Thor (only one of him) kicks Gorr's ass all over the place. Gorr had to do like a thousand years of god-butchering before he took another shot.

I imagine in the MCU, Kang's gonna let Gorr into some alternate universes to butcher all THEIR gods, rather than there being a 1000 year delay. He's not gonna be the big bad, he's gonna be the lieutenant who's a constant recurring threat and keeps coming back stronger. Like Loki in the Thanos cycle, but without either the humour or the redemption.

[Syegfryed]

Blame Odin; he's the one who wrote the enchantment on Mjolnir.

from what i recall, it says "he/she who is worthy will have the power of Thor", not "he/she will be Thor", having the power of thor - strenght lightining, whatever - don't mean you are Thor.

I don't mind her, or other people lifting the hammer, but they "becoming thor" is like Gwen becoming "spider-man", just sounds bad to me.

You folks keep thinking we're getting the end of Gorr the God-Butcher's story, for some reason, and I think it's way more likely we're getting an introduction, like the comic version where kills a bunch of Earth's gods and then tries to jump Thor in Viking-era Iceland while he's partying on Midgard and Thor (only one of him) kicks Gorr's ass all over the place. Gorr had to do like a thousand years of god-butchering before he took another shot.

Usually when the villain appear he meets his demise in the same movie, Malekith and Helya didn't last. Especially knowing Gorr is a middle-man to King in Black...

And as far i remember in the comics Thor got his ass handed to him, almost died, and was saved by the vikings when Gorr was trying to torture him.

So, if Gorr sticks or no, i expect more than one Thor regardless, to deal with him.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

from what i recall, it says "he/she who is worthy will have the power of Thor", not "he/she will be Thor", having the power of thor - strenght lightining, whatever - don't mean you are Thor.

Read the old Thor comics. Donald Blake doesn't just get the powers of Thor...he literally becomes Thor.

[Endus]

from what i recall, it says "he/she who is worthy will have the power of Thor", not "he/she will be Thor", having the power of thor - strenght lightining, whatever - don't mean you are Thor.

A distinction without meaning. Having the power of Thor meant you were Thor. Like I said; it was explicitly a mantle that was passed around to those who were deemed "worthy". The idea that there was a "real" Thor isn't how Marvel started out with the character, in the first place.

I don't mind her, or other people lifting the hammer, but they "becoming thor" is like Gwen becoming "spider-man", just sounds bad to me.

Because you're confusing the individual wearing the costume with the hero identity that the costume represents. The only reason it's weird for Gwen Stacy to be "Spider-Man" is because she'd be "Spider-Woman". Which, y'know, they've done (and before you comment that she has a different-looking suit, Peter's had like 15 or 20 different suits, dude, just counting the ones that are obviously different).

Usually when the villain appear he meets his demise in the same movie, Malekith and Helya didn't last. Especially knowing Gorr is a middle-man to King in Black...

We don't know anything about Gorr in the MCU. You can't use the comics as precedent; the MCU is an entirely separate (set of) universe(s).

And as far i remember in the comics Thor got his ass handed to him, almost died, and was saved by the vikings when Gorr was trying to torture him.

And then cut off Gorr's arm, nearly killing him. Hence my point. Didn't take multiple Thors. Took one Thor and a momentary distraction by regular people without any powers at all.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Malekith and Helya didn't last.

Loki did. Thanos did.

And really, it would be a good idea for the MCU to stop killing off villains in their first appearance.

[Syegfryed]

A distinction without meaning. Having the power of Thor meant you were Thor. Like I said; it was explicitly a mantle that was passed around to those who were deemed "worthy". The idea that there was a "real" Thor isn't how Marvel started out with the character, in the first place.



Because you're confusing the individual wearing the costume with the hero identity that the costume represents. The only reason it's weird for Gwen Stacy to be "Spider-Man" is because she'd be "Spider-Woman". Which, y'know, they've done (and before you comment that she has a different-looking suit, Peter's had like 15 or 20 different suits, dude, just counting the ones that are obviously different).

Like i said, its just sounds bad to me. its like someone becoming stark if they use the suit, i don't like it.

We don't know anything about Gorr in the MCU. You can't use the comics as precedent; the MCU is an entirely separate (set of) universe(s).

Im not using the comics as precedent, im using the Thor movies as precedent, as Malekith and Helya didn't last and where their own movie

And then cut off Gorr's arm, nearly killing him. Hence my point. Didn't take multiple Thors. Took one Thor and a momentary distraction by regular people without any powers at all.

Because it was a luck shot, he lost and was going to die, he was saved and got trauma.

With two thors he could have more of a chance

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Loki did. Thanos did.

And really, it would be a good idea for the MCU to stop killing off villains in their first appearance.

I don't disagree, but what other movie Gorr would show up? he isn't an avengers villain like loki and Thanos was, show up in another Thor movie?

And tbh he is so ugly i don't rly care if he don't show up anymore.

[Endus]

Like i said, its just sounds bad to me. its like someone becoming stark if they use the suit, i don't like it.

Because that's not what happens. They don't become Tony Stark. They become Iron Man.

Like I said; you're confusing the individual character with the heroic mantle that individual sometimes wears.

Im not using the comics as precedent, im using the Thor movies as precedent, as Malekith and Helya didn't last and where their own movie

" ... knowing Gorr is a middle-man to King in Black"

We don't know that. Gorr the God-Butcher in the MCU could be a guy working a butcher store in the Godmall, an interdimensional shopping center that serves the Gods of Earth. He's got a mean cleaver if you want some nice dragon steaks, but he's not a threat.

We literally know nothing other than the name and the one image we've seen.

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I don't disagree, but what other movie Gorr would show up? he isn't an avengers villain like loki and Thanos was, show up in another Thor movie?

Why not?

Again, you're pulling comics info forward, and the MCU doesn't follow those rules.

[Syegfryed]

Because that's not what happens. They don't become Tony Stark. They become Iron Man.

Like I said; you're confusing the individual character with the heroic mantle that individual sometimes wears.

Im not confusing, im just saying i don't like regardless

sorry to be entitled to my own taste.

" ... knowing Gorr is a middle-man to King in Black"

We don't know that. Gorr the God-Butcher in the MCU could be a guy working a butcher store in the Godmall, an interdimensional shopping center that serves the Gods of Earth. He's got a mean cleaver if you want some nice dragon steaks, but he's not a threat.

He will be using all-black, and i doubt they will not make the maker of it, so im gonna with the safe bet, sorry

Why not?

Again, you're pulling comics info forward, and the MCU doesn't follow those rules.

Saying the mcu don't pull things from comics

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I don't disagree, but what other movie Gorr would show up? he isn't an avengers villain like loki and Thanos was, show up in another Thor movie?

And tbh he is so ugly i don't rly care if he don't show up anymore.

Just because he's a "Thor Villain" doesn't mean he has to strictly appear in Thor movies. I mean, if Thor does need help to defeat Gorr...who better to call than the Avengers? You gotta get out of the headspace that "this is a Thor movie" and "this is an Avengers movie"...they're all part of a larger whole. Anyone can show up in anyone else's movie.

Kang is an Avengers villain...the first place he showed up (kinda) was in the Loki series and the next time we'll see him is in Antman 3.

[Endus]

He will be using all-black, and i doubt they will not make the maker of it, so im gonna with the safe bet, sorry

Source that Gorr's definitely wielding All-Black in the upcoming Thor movie?

Also, source that All-Black was definitely made by the King in Black, even if the above is true, in the MCU?

Cause we've definitely had major changes in character origins in the MCU.