Warlock WoD Beta test - General chat

[bio347]

They may appreciate constructive feedback / bug reports better but do they act on it?

The devs are under no obligations to act upon any feedback of any sort, no.

Giving feedback does not entitle you to see a response from the devs, and it certainly doesn't entitle you to changes based on your feedback. Heck, it doesn't even entitle you to being right. That's how it works.

[Grizelda]

Well, to be fair you would hope that they act on bug reports. Some bugs have gone on live for months. (Not complaining, I know the game is a massive amount of work)
But no they don't have to.

They don't have to respond. They don't have to take feedback into account when making changes. They don't have to let us know if we are right. They don't even have to be nice.

But if they don't want to do any of those things, maybe they should do less with Twitter.

[bio347]

I'm not saying they don't want to. Obviously they do, otherwise they wouldn't be trying. But when there's so few of them compared to us, the expectation that you DESERVE a response isn't a good one. The constant chorus of "Blizzard is ignoring us!" and "Blizzard are big meanies!" whenever they do or don't do something is just... incredibly off-putting.

[Count Zero]

on the plus side, i asked:

Avikur ‏@Avikur1
@Celestalon destruction has no way of healing pet with health funnel gone, intended?

Celestalon ‏@Celestalon
@Avikur1 Hang tight for the next next build.


looks like we'll either get it back or something to replace it

Part of me fears it'll be something that costs an ember

[Zynx]

Honestly he replies to tweets on his own personal time just because he cares about the players. If I got stupid tweets like that I'd just respond in kind too.

[Phoenexis]

Part of me fears it'll be something that costs an ember

Probably, because Blizzard always knows how to balance cost and reward when it comes to warlock resources!

[Grizelda]

Maybe they would share healing with our ember taps.

[Nerraw]

on the plus side, i asked:

Avikur ‏@Avikur1
@Celestalon destruction has no way of healing pet with health funnel gone, intended?

Celestalon ‏@Celestalon
@Avikur1 Hang tight for the next next build.


looks like we'll either get it back or something to replace it

I honestly don't get why the hell they removed it in the first place. The warlock changes for this beta have been disconnected from each other and really random.

[Jessicka]

The fun part about asking deliberately inflammatory things of the devs is that you win no matter what! It's a pretty clever tactic, I'll admit (even if it's not intentional).

1) If he responds constructively, that's a win because of obvious reasons.
2) If he doesn't respond, that's a win because you get to continue to complain that the devs are ignoring you.
3) If he responds as he did, that's ALSO a win because you get to complain about how Blizzard are being big mean doodooheads.

I wasn't setting out to "win" anything. I certainly wouldn't call this a win if I was.

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I'm not saying they don't want to. Obviously they do, otherwise they wouldn't be trying. But when there's so few of them compared to us, the expectation that you DESERVE a response isn't a good one. The constant chorus of "Blizzard is ignoring us!" and "Blizzard are big meanies!" whenever they do or don't do something is just... incredibly off-putting.

You know what else is off-putting. I write the blog style posts, I the make detailed tweets and I ask serious questions. Then the one time he takes a moment to reply is the one time I post a tweet like that.

Are those days gone? I seem to get the impression that's what he wants.

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Maybe they would share healing with our ember taps.

Don't worry, you'll have plenty with CR.

[Tya]

Normally I think the whole "Blizzard hate x class" thing is pathetic and childish, but dear god I swear every response to any warlock issue is sarcastic, or boils down to "you're just mad that you're not OP anymore".

The class has issues, and those issues are being totally ignored.

• Flames of Xoroth is a stupid ability. It forgets what pet I had, each time I zone. Even if I currently have that pet when I zone.
• Half the talents are either PvP only or PVE only. Zoning from a bg to a raid or vice versa, I find myself changing my entire talent tree because "well, this talent doesn't work in this part of the game, or is so sub-optimal that it isn't viable".
• Why is my pet so damn slow? It's perpetually behind me and when using it, I'm constantly waiting for it to get where I want it to be.
• Please allow locks to filter out raid messages and whispers containing "123" or "sum plx".
• Most of my pets are extremely situational. Imps are terrible. Succubi are currently only really useful for irritating people with auto-seduce. With that gone, they return to being useless too.
• Why is spell lock attached to one of the 5 (now 7) pets? Imagine if hunters could only use Counter Shot if they had a wolf out. It's insane. PvP is always going to be balanced around the felhunter while our interrupt is tied to it.
• Demo has no self-sustainability and yet still has life tap.
• Drain Life requires mana. Need life? Spend mana. Then spend that life to get the mana back. Sorry, what?
• Harvest Life and the Drain Life glyphs are awful, awful design. What other spell basically requires a talent AND a glyph in order to be worth using? Worse still, the talent shares the same slot as two amazing talents. It's a case of "Spend a talent and a glyph slot on this ability or take it off your action bar".
• Fear is being nerfed. Great. I agree with this. But can fear counters get a review? An undead warrior with a trinket is, like, what.
• What happened to the idea of warlocks making their enemies weaker? Every other class is getting their identity back, but warlock debilitating spells are being removed.

I take no responsibility for the coherency, or lack thereof, of my rant.

[Nerraw]

Then the one time he takes a moment to reply is the one time I post a tweet like that.

This is my one gripe with this, and probably the one that'll move me over to my paladin for the next two years. In the last few weeks we've pretty much only had the message the Demonbolt is halfway through some change. They've been completely silent on everything else, except this one now. I don't know if it's intentional or not, but this kind of interaction of one class community drives people away.

[Deleted]

I'll add some thoughts to Warlocks at the moment in Beta too.

LVL 100 talents for warlocks feel really underwhelming right now. I played a magetoon on beta today, and was delighted how 4-5-6 talents changed in the talent tree for every spec. Not only was there difference in simple colors, some hat different animations, game play, numbers, play styles involved.

why is it not possible to do the same for warlocks? ok we have our chaotic resource talent. but its 1 (in words: "one" talent) that changes for specs, and not even a really awesome one.

but to be a bit more precise:
Demonbolt: This does not even fit in the theme "chaotic resources" WoD hat some buttonsmash as I read about. They cut out ToC (and the famos laser for AE), carrion swarm (both also with the intentions to cut out interrupts and casting while moving) I could understand that. but now I get a new Spell, a new button, which does nothing different that the ones I already have.
It has a awesome animation, I grant them that. But at the end its some glorious shiny new soulfire, without moltencore procs, less dmg/fury, a bit of a trap (if you collect more that 1 stack of the debuff) an effective 1 min DMG CD with on new extra button. This just does not seem right. It feels odd.

Idea: why not let Demonbolt (DB) replace Soulfire (SF)?
give it a splash in Meta, while moltencore procs are used? This would address the MeleeAE-problem for demo-locks. Or let it do some extra dmg, when hitting a target with a certain debuff, or whatever. think there are 3-4-5 better solutions than this : 1min CD singletarget extra new shiny button to press.

same goes with mannoroths furry, why not change it for all 3 specs?
bigger AE range for demolocks in Meta, bigger range for destro while F&B but maybe 50% less ember generation or more ember with bigger RoF? and something different for affli. (maybe faster dotswaping, or bouncing dots (like Seed ofCorruption)

else, what is it with this new lvl 100 cataclysm?
optics say, clearly a destro spell. and thats really nice. OK they don't use it, cuz charred remains+ AE-Chaosbolt is to op and without CD, but what has this spell to do with demo-warlocks? they enslave demons and souls, summon the first and burn the later. couldn't it have been to summon a swarm of hungry, little critters, that feast on our enemys (maybe even a channel) or some strong AE buff/ability for our beloved felguard?
and even affliction, this is nowhere near a cursing (where are our curses?... not a single one left), swearing, affliction and corruption spreading warlock. this is not vile, defiling. it is a big red circle of fire (which ominously spreads corruption).
couldn't it have been a cloud of toxic fumes, swamlights ? something lifedraining, or crippeling, maybe aging effect? that transfers the power of the target to the warlock? as it should be as an affliction master? I know it's hard to balance. But I don't see the specs any longer well representet in these talents, ok, destro maybe) but in particular affliction got the worst of it, doting, multidotting nearly removed for the sake of (snapshotting + swaping is to strong, so remove all of it).
I feel, some of the mayor aspects of my class are no longer represent. I started playing warlock back in classic, because i liked controlling demons, and spreading death and decay, afflictions and sucking the life out of my enemies. I liked running around dotting everything and watch it suffer and die.
Ok never was much fan of this glorified "poor"Firemagecopy. but WoD - warlocks. Right now I feel mainly like that, the left out, poorer (cuz simpler (at least what spec rotation/complexity of destro feels like) less fun version of mages, with demo-warlocks for compensation (but also strongly cut, don't even want to think about the design flaw of UVLS and the following nerf to Doom, Wildimp spawnrate, Wildimp casting time and UVLS, that followed that up, just to make clear, never play this way again please)

[Nerraw]

why is it not possible to do the same for warlocks?

Because they've openly stated they're taking a break of sorts on warlocks since they overhauled us completely last time.

[Deleted]

yeah but this time it feels like we are on the jailbreak.. cutting everthing that is fun and giving most boring stuff imaginable back.

[Deleted]

Even if you give good and constructive feedback you don't always get a response.
You can't expect them to reply to every single thing nor can you expect them to reply properly against some mindless ranting.
And even if it is an amazing thing you posted and you don't get a response, it doesn't mean they don't do anything with it.

I'm a developer myself but in a much smaller team (4 people) and only for a server of an old game but we have a test server and quite a bit of players but I don't respond to everything either or take everything serious since often a lot of feedback is rubbish and I see the same on twitter and on forums like here.

So if you want to be heard and taken serious make sure if you rant about something that you give a proper reason why something is awfull or not working properly or w/e reason or thing it is.
Without proper reasoning the feedback is useless.

[Nerraw]

If you tell people of a certain class that you won't change much but mostly fine-tune, and then go ahead and do the exact opposite to create something near a catastrophe, and then still not talk to people, that's when you get people stepping over the line to make themselves heard.

[Deleted]

If you tell people of a certain class that you won't change much but mostly fine-tune, and then go ahead and do the exact opposite to create something near a catastrophe, and then still not talk to people, that's when you get people stepping over the line to make themselves heard.

Thats it. I enjoyed MOP Warlock so much (ok mainly Affl. + Demo). They did a realy great job there. And even Destro is, while easy to lern, quite a bit to master. Than they say, hey Warlock is fine, so we wont change that much and others go and get the love. Thats fine with me also. Rogues, Hunters, S-Priests... even Mages to some degree needet it badly. But when they then go about on a rant and hack/slash everthing that is fun from the Warlockclass and come up with the most unimaginative things to cover that, that is the point, when people get a little bit angry.

I raid quite excessive, play warlock for nearly 10 years now, but even while i have a beta key, every betabuild that goes live gives me less reasons to give WoD a shot. Right now I'am very happy that I have not bought it yet.

[Hellfury]

seems he is like just answering to the rants and the troll tweets to give warlock comunity a bad image, becuase to the mass public thats the image that passes, its not the extended feedback and constructive, its the tweets they respond too

[Jessicka]

seems he is like just answering to the rants and the troll tweets to give warlock comunity a bad image, becuase to the mass public thats the image that passes, its not the extended feedback and constructive, its the tweets they respond too

Was what I said really that bad a a rant? Class plays better without the 100 talents? Pretty sure it is the same feedback Mages gave about their 90s for the past 2 or so years. :/

[Deleted]

Was what I said really that bad a a rant? Class plays better without the 100 talents? Pretty sure it is the same feedback Mages gave about their 90s for the past 2 or so years. :/

even if iam not always with your opinion, that tweet wasn't that bad, it only showed in an sarcastic way, how boring the new talents are. Maybe he isn't into this, or one of the persons that can't catch the things behind irony and sarcasm. Or they are not yet done with WL and just troll us back until they are ready to give us the big fish. (feels like that, don't know, maybe with 6.0.10.. or 6.1) whatever either the question could have been formulated with more caution, or/and his answer should have been to ignore it or to reply more polite. At the end, we are the customers, and we pay him. Thats the thing it all burns down to. And right at the moment, warlocks dont feel, that there concerns in therms of gameplay (not numbers, most of us agree that WL was at a to OP spot to beginn with) are taken seriously.