World of Waitcraft

[Spacepunch]

The way they used to create "hard to complete" content before was equally cheap parlor tricks, of resistance gear, long winding atunements etc. same shit.

at least you had something to do.

[Mihalik]

at least you had something to do.

Yeah but the problem is where do you find the balance between "You have something to do" and "You can't do shit, because you don't have the time to spend 6+ hours a day grinding"?

[Farabee]

You are talking about utterly different genres. Skyrim places a grind limit on you (how many hours of play does it take to craft a full Daedric set). Also the game has an "end", the fact that is highly re-playable is great but very few people spend as many hours a day logged into Skyrim as they do in WoW. Battlefield gear progression has a much much much smaller influence on the game then WoW. To be honest Battlefield has no gear progression, most of the important unlocks can be done within a few days of lazy play. Dark Souls is again a different game. Its time sink is its artificially high difficulty.

Technically, Skyrim doesn't have an end. You can get procedurally generated quests until the end of time. Doesn't mean it's GREAT content, but it is content.

WoW is just an RPG with other people playing it at the same time as you. It is not a "different genre". It is just an MMO. You can play the entire thing as a single-player experience if you really wanted to and just quit at 90. Many people do. The gating only exists because it is a subscription service.

Yeah but the problem is where do you find the balance between "You have something to do" and "You can't do shit, because you don't have the time to spend 6+ hours a day grinding"?

So do what people did in the old days, focus on the important things that you have the time for. Right now the answer to the question of being out of things to do is "roll an alt." Ever notice how many people didn't even HAVE alts in Vanilla?

[Maddoc]

Imagine if Skyrim made you wait 24 hours to craft a new piece of gear, or do one of the main quests. Imagine if the Battlefield games only let you get X amount of upgrades each day or week. Imagine if Dark Souls only let you kill one boss a day.

Yes, because that's a reasonable comparison, since it's two different types of games, but I'll play. After I maxed out Alchemy, Smithing and Enchanting, I crafted the best gear that is possible to make. And then I was done... I litteraly roflstomped every fucking thing in the game and got bored. So I decided to max out my character. It took a while, but I did it. And if I did not roflstomp earlier, well now it was a complete joke. Killing Alduin was as easy as killing crabs. Imagine if we had the same progression in WoW, with no gating or lockouts. By the first week of a new patch, people would have hit Exalted with the new faction, crafted/bought all the new gear that they need (PvP or PvE), done all the quests and crafted all the new cool mounts/pets/items. Then you're done. What the fuck are you going to do now?

Skyrim has an ending. I did alot of the major side quest chains, like the Dark Brotherhood chain and the Thieves Guild chain, killed the last boss, and then I felt that I was done. The game had ended. WoW is not based around the same "ending" like that.

[Orcbert]

Imagine if Skyrim made you wait 24 hours to craft a new piece of gear, or do one of the main quests. Imagine if the Battlefield games only let you get X amount of upgrades each day or week. Imagine if Dark Souls only let you kill one boss a day.

In those games, the longevity of the content rests on how much you play. OP is saying WoW should be like that. Considering each of those games are still played, daily, by people I'd say it's not a bad idea to try out.



You mean like this 553 belt for 1700g on Quel'Thalas Alliance?

https://theunderminejournal.com/item...las&item=98612

All the current system does is gate the player power level until the content becomes trivial just like every other system. It doesn't happen any slower or faster than before, it's just more annoying.

I believe the 'before' system you are refering to was when the patterns for raid level items and mats to craft them dropped from the normal raids? So the only people who could craft would be the high end raiders who don't even need the items. And yeah, months after the content has dropped your 553 belt isn't worth that much. Like I said, I would like less of the cooldown item needed to craft it but I still think it needs to be a component to get some value out of the items.

[Deleted]

All this complaining about getting capped and then having nothing to do, does that mean that actually playing the game is, in and of itself, boring? If you are only playing to cap, why play at all? Where is the fun? Where is the challenge? Does WoW have nothing else to offer it's player base than caps and the gear associated with them? What about objectives within the game, such as rating/boss kills? What happened to trying to climb ladders or down bosses?

Unless the complainant is already at the top of the ladders/clearing heroic modes in a day....

[Supakaiser]

stop thinking about wow as an mmo and just realise its a lobby game. the wait times in that context dont seem too bad.


also, duel monitors really helps.

[Deleted]

So do what people did in the old days, focus on the important things that you have the time for. Right now the answer to the question of being out of things to do is "roll an alt." Ever notice how many people didn't even HAVE alts in Vanilla?

The following information might actually shock you.
Most people did HAVE alts in Vanilla. There was no catchup mechanisms like there are now though so while my main was killing bosses in AQ40, my brand new level 60 alt had to grind his gear from scratch.

While a dungeon takes 10-15 minutes nowadays, it wasn't uncommon for Vanilla dungeons to take hours. For example in Stratholme they added an event back when they boosted the dungeon drops called Baron 45. This event translated into kill Rivendare in 45 mins, and it wasn't the sort of things you did in random grps,for which the dungeon took much longer. Now consider Stratholme has both a living side and a dead side, the whole find a group, travel to dungeon and killing stuff. More often then not, your item didn't even drop.

Bonus points if X dragon spawned in some remote location while you where just starting a new dungeon on your alt.

Lets talk professions. Pretty much all epic items had raid mats required for crafting. You might not like that X belt needs X mat that you can only do 1/day. But you do like that you can get that belt on your own and sell it. Well how about needing 40 people to get that material instead+ having your guild decide whats going to be done with it?

[Bryntrollian]

It extends the lifespan of the content, this way you have to pay for a few more months until you are done.

[Starbrand]

I stepped back from WoW many times to always remind myself its a game, not a lifestyle. I understand the hardwork that goes into the game as well. So many don't realize what is being accomplished vs. productivity.

There's a simple answer which is explained in 2 loading screen messages.

"Remember to take all things in moderation (even World of Warcraft!)"

"Bring your friends to Azeroth. But don't forget to go outside of Azeroth with them as well."

[Granyala]

So, to end my rant - am I the only one annoyed at the amount of waiting and gating there is between players and progression? In all fairness it just feels like lazy design

1) No you're not alone.
2) It's not lazy design. It's a design decision to prevent players, without much free time, from falling too far behind, by providing weekly caps on progression.

[crunk]

"snarky comments about typos"

yeah so i strap 2 old CRT monitors to roombas and make them battle in between queues, wanna fight about it?

[Seefer]

Speaking from the perspective of mostly a solo player / PvPer.

Am I the only one bothered by the amount of waiting and gating the game seems to be growing to use more and more of with each expansion? First there were daily heroic lockouts in TBC, then there were gated daily-based reputation grinds; Then it became better with tabards in wotlk and worse again when dungeon finder was introduced and 5-mans were boiled down to 'sit in queue' -- just like BGs.

Skipping to today, many professions have an annoying daily cooldown that you have to manage to make something cool -- as opposed to going out into the world and finding all the mats you need. Anything below proper raids is based on sitting and waiting in queues. The best non-RNG progression is gated behind weekly valor / conquest caps. Dailies are gone (and thank fucking god, good riddance), alongside to an extend 5-man lockouts -- admittedly, LFR took the place of 5-man heroics and that only has a tiny chance to give you upgrades once every bloody week.

So, to end my rant - am I the only one annoyed at the amount of waiting and gating there is between players and progression? In all fairness it just feels like lazy design, and right now at the end of an expansion is when it's at it's worst. Some could argue that it was always there for non-raiders, but here's the thing - presence of LFR kills any and all incentive for 99% of people to get better at the game and start proper raiding, which in the long run doesn't mean anything good for the game.

When you click a pandaren they sometimes say 'Patience, patience' -- and that seems to be a great summary of this expansion. It's just a whole lot of waiting for a mostly disappointing payoff.

What do you lot think?

You aren't the only one my brother, my time ran out today because I forgot to change my credit card info and now I have been sitting here all day going "Is it worth resubbing before next expansion?"

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, because that's a reasonable comparison, since it's two different types of games, but I'll play. After I maxed out Alchemy, Smithing and Enchanting, I crafted the best gear that is possible to make. And then I was done... I litteraly roflstomped every fucking thing in the game and got bored. So I decided to max out my character. It took a while, but I did it. And if I did not roflstomp earlier, well now it was a complete joke. Killing Alduin was as easy as killing crabs. Imagine if we had the same progression in WoW, with no gating or lockouts. By the first week of a new patch, people would have hit Exalted with the new faction, crafted/bought all the new gear that they need (PvP or PvE), done all the quests and crafted all the new cool mounts/pets/items. Then you're done. What the fuck are you going to do now?

Skyrim has an ending. I did alot of the major side quest chains, like the Dark Brotherhood chain and the Thieves Guild chain, killed the last boss, and then I felt that I was done. The game had ended. WoW is not based around the same "ending" like that.

And yet BC had the least amount of of raid kills and the longest time between them...........and it was one of the best expansions.

[notorious98]

Skipping to today, many professions have an annoying daily cooldown that you have to manage to make something cool -- as opposed to going out into the world and finding all the mats you need.

You mean similar to Mooncloth creation or Arcanite Bar transmutes? By the way, aside from the new and shiny CD materials (Hardened Magnificent Hide, etc.), everything IS able to be crafted by finding the mats you need in the world. That's the point of the "Accelerated" version.

Anything below proper raids is based on sitting and waiting in queues.

As opposed to sitting in cities and spamming trade?

The best non-RNG progression is gated behind weekly valor / conquest caps.

As opposed to the best non-RNG progression being nothing?

Methinks that maybe you never played the game prior to "today".

[Facerockker]

There's so much stuff to do in the game, I really don't see this as a valid complaint. There's pet battles, achievement farming, item farming, mount farming, professions, quests, etc. Not to mention that, like others have said, waiting is good sometimes.

[Saberstrike]

Just because something was always there (arcanite cooldown = living steel cooldown, etc.) doesn't mean the system is good. Not everything that was here before was amazing - that doesn't mean that what took it's place is very good either. It's a false dilema - bad thing from the past or a slightly better but still bad thing from the present? Why not an even better thing for the future?

Queues and silly attempts at making 'social' experience for pre-raid content could be replaced with something akin timeless isle or even quests to help people catch up on gear to the current content. Let's be real now - they're doing insta-90 thing in an effort to get people up to speed for current content while at the same time p. much forcing people to go through obsolete 5-mans / LFR that take longer to queue for than actually clear. I'm all for killing things faster, but honestly - let's just cut the middle man. Let those who want to be social be social. Don't force raiding down everyone else's throat.

I would personally much rather have some skill-developing solo challenges that prepared people for REAL raiding (brawlers' guild / proving grounds / some trickier skill based quests like green fire / rogue legendary in cata) than just have them sorta kinda show up for LFR / 5mans and leech points just because they waited a bit to get in. This is my main problem with it - waiting doesn't help you improve as a player, and neither does most of the content you wait for.

[-Superman-]

WoW is a time sink. Time costs money. The longer it takes you, the more you spend. The more you spend, the more bonus checks there are at Blizzard. Follow the money and you will find your reason. Not saying I condone it, just the way of a sub based MMO mate.

[Mirishka]

Imagine if Skyrim made you wait 24 hours to craft a new piece of gear, or do one of the main quests. Imagine if the Battlefield games only let you get X amount of upgrades each day or week. Imagine if Dark Souls only let you kill one boss a day.

In those games, the longevity of the content rests on how much you play. OP is saying WoW should be like that. Considering each of those games are still played, daily, by people I'd say it's not a bad idea to try out.



You mean like this 553 belt for 1700g on Quel'Thalas Alliance?

https://theunderminejournal.com/item...las&item=98612

All the current system does is gate the player power level until the content becomes trivial just like every other system. It doesn't happen any slower or faster than before, it's just more annoying.

No offense but those are stupid comparisons.

Also, stuff like Onyxia attunement from classic says hello for players who think it was so much better in the glory days.

[notorious98]

Just because something was always there (arcanite cooldown = living steel cooldown, etc.) doesn't mean the system is good. Not everything that was here before was amazing - that doesn't mean that what took it's place is very good either. It's a false dilema - bad thing from the past or a slightly better but still bad thing from the present? Why not an even better thing for the future?

Except you're pretending that it's getting worse with each expansion and I'm saying that it's always been there. The "gating" in TBC that you mentioned was for brand new content that didn't exist in Classic. You actually had the audacity to say that the tabards in WotLK made rep-based grinds better until group finder. Except, with group finder, the daily lockout on heroics, which you complain about in the previous sentence, got removed altogether making the rep-based grind even easier as well as your ability to find a group. Your entire complaint is based around how you have a problem with it getting worse when, in reality, the only thing that got worse was the rep-based grind in MoP.

This is my main problem with it - waiting doesn't help you improve as a player, and neither does most of the content you wait for.

And nobody ever said that it did. But what is your problem. First it's how much gating there is in the game. Now it's that it doesn't make players better. Pick and argument and stick with it.

[DechCJC]

I agree, and it sucks but what can Blizzard do at this point to remedy it really? I sure don't have a fucking clue lol. I just wish there was more to do besides high-end raiding/pvp in the world, I don't want ALL of my content to be gated... Sure, there's little things I can do, but nothing meaningful or even remotely enjoyable (from my PoV).