3-4 raid days alienating good players with less time.

[Deleted]

Its almost impossible to find a guild that accepts 2 days of raiding. Many of the people i know from wow could do 2 days, but find it impossible to find a proper guild that accepts this. Good players, with proven skills.

Guilds that raid 2 days per week and do hardmodes exist. But the problem is, they require both skill and strict discipline, and players with both those assets are rare.

But would it not be better to have 3 really good 2-day raiders to juggle than 2 lesser capable 3-4 day raiders?

No.

Because a) with an extra 1-2 days to practice, those lesser capable raiders can outperform the more capable raiders, even if they're slower to learn.
And b) the amount of juggling required to manage 3 2-day raiders in a 3-day roster will drive any officer insane. He'd have to balance farm attendance against progress against tank/healer/ranged/melee balance, and for 10m guilds, take into account availability of raidbuffs. While people come to him with special requests for days off (if he's lucky and they don't just sign up and stay away without informing), holiday breaks and wow-breaks.

I think the leaders of guilds should rethink their recruitment strategy, if they want to get the people with the skill needed.

Honestly, consistent discipline and commitment are more important than skill. Skill can be learned, discipline and commitment can only deteriorate.

[Tojara]

Unfortunately no. As someone who runs a guild having to juggle people is a hassle itself, and when you start juggling people that can only raid half time you're putting yourself in a bind. You start splitting loot amongst raiders and you also start splitting progression time on bosses if one person starts on the boss and another group in your rotation comes into finish it.

Having part time raiders, regardless of how good they are really isn't that great, especially on the actual hard fights. During siege crafter progression where I would have a revolving 'belt' of part timers do the assembly line (lol) would cause my brain to explode.

I know lots of people who can only raid a limited schedule that I would love to have in my roster, but something has to give and if you want to do in a reasonable manner it's just best to find a guild that suits your time needs.

It's just way too much micromanagement. Leaders already juggle rosters based on class needs for encounters and a roster that typical exceeds it's raid size. Adding part time players while some people do it, just generally adds another layer to the balance when you can completely get around it by simply only recruiting people who meet your schedule. Most 25 man guilds on average run 30+ people, which means you already have to juggle personnel between encounters. When you add people who don't meed your full schedule you would likely have to compensate by adding an additional person, and that just further dilutes loot pools.

We raid 4 days during progression and less than 1 day during farm. Part of the reason you see people trying to get as many days into the picture as possible is because over the course of a content cycle, people expect that their goals are met and that time commitment is lowered at some point. For normal guilds this might just be clearing normal Garrosh and for heroic guilds it would be clearing heroics.

[Denkou]

I think alot of really good players a being neglected cause there is a common "standard" for guilds nowadays saying its "3 days minimum or p** off", and the same raidleaders/guildmasters spam, forums and cry about - "no good players left to sign".

I dunno, I think that's pretty much been the standard since vanilla. Maybe even less than the standard; most guilds in vanilla (the ones that actually made progress, anyway) raided 4+ days with each raid lasting 4-6 hours, and that was considered pretty easygoing.

[owbu]

Just go to wowprogress and sort by 2 raiddays/week. There is lots of them.
We raid 2 days a week and are on Siegecrafter hero now. Most of our recruits come from hardcore guilds, who want some more free time.
If you dont expect instant killings of everything, you should find a nice guild pretty quickly.

[fixx]

Proper Progress requires 3-4 days. Accepted. But would it not be better to have 3 really good 2-day raiders to juggle than 2 lesser capable 3-4 day raiders?

No, because if you always do just 2 days of guild's regular 3-4 day raid week it leads into four very big problems:

• you have worse gear because you miss on farm days and easier progress fights
• if you show up only for progress raids other people in the guild feel slighted when they have to do farm shit and you dont
• if you show up only for farm nights you're worthless for the guild as a whole because you dont help in the hard progression fights
• if you're actually one of the better players in the guild or have an important job like tanking or healing, the raid leader might have to call off nights when you dont show up and essentially force whole guild to work around your schedule and fall back to 2 days regardless of what they want

[Normie]

I dunno, I think that's pretty much been the standard since vanilla. Maybe even less than the standard; most guilds in vanilla (the ones that actually made progress, anyway) raided 4+ days with each raid lasting 4-6 hours, and that was considered pretty easygoing.

That was back when the game (at least the WoW brand) was sort of new and different and interesting, as opposed to now, when the game isn't even fun.

[Lochton]

Who raids 4 days a week now a days?

I can understand in the start of a tier, but the highest I've seen is 3 days lately, my raid group runs 2 days because.. we're basicly jost chilling.

[Deleted]

i gree, i'm a raider for about 9 years, i consider myself actually very very skilled at my class and basicly any raid insight. Guilds missmanage their time and is the reason 10 man guilds die after 1 to 2 months.

[wych]

Every raid guild i see have a minimum of 3-4 raid days. They try to build their roster around this and yet cry when noone is there to fill it.

Lots and LOTS of people can raid 2 days. Kids, jobs, girlfriends and other stuff get in the way for more. Ive been there, allthough i can see off 3 nights Again now.

Its almost impossible to find a guild that accepts 2 days of raiding. Many of the people i know from wow could do 2 days, but find it impossible to find a proper guild that accepts this. Good players, with proven skills.

If all of the above is true, why don't you form a raid guild with these people?


Or if it's not about you, why are you bothered at all? If these skilled 2 nights a week raiders want to raid, they can form their own guild. There's nothing at all stopping them.

[Deleted]

cant raid due to real life ? THEN DONT. It's this fucking simple.
The Raid, your Guild, and your sever wont suddenly stop being able to function because you cannot do the required days, and if your guild cant accept that you have real life commitments from time to time and cannot meet the 3 - 4 days raiding they demand, Then its time to move on.

[Azaael]

I've seen them exist. The 2 ones usually seem to raid 3 days, and only require 2. I think if you poke around forums/wowprogress(and don't mind server swapping possibly), you can find Heroic(soon to be Mythic) guilds who A. Have people who tend to have busy real lives via work, families, or whatnot, B. Put emphasis on knowing the ins and outs of fights, and C. Probably don't race for server firsts and the like-with limited time, you probably won't be breaking any records(but if all you want to do is raid Mythic/Heroic then that's probably fine.) These days you don't need to do excessive farming even to support yourself for raiding, just some food/flask/pot mats and the like which are easy to come by these days(unlike the older days.)

It's very much possible to progress on harder modes with limited time; you just have to accept that it may take a bit longer to progress in it is all. You don't need to devote 4 full nights a week to raiding unless you're trying to race others on your server.

[Saphyron]

My guild raids only 2 days a week. Well we are a casual bunch.
Im personally not in the team but i think they are on galakras atm.

We are not a hardcore guild we are just playing for fun.

[Milkyz]

Should start your own or search more. Tho it's weird that you're saying that it's hard to find. Filtering WoWprogress by 2 days/week returned a LOT of guilds. EU, 2 days/week, 25man returned more than 100 guilds that killed at least one boss heroic. I'd say that's a lot.

I think Blizzard is making too much money from transfers - they've connected like, what.. 3-4 EU realms?

Yes, Greedy Milking Blizzard can't lose money from transfer, so they've only connected 4, you can even check on this post:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8715582685

Wait, no. Way more than 4. Eh... doesn't matter, still Greedy Milking Company! Yeah!

[Deleted]

Then its time to move on.

Right and the discussion was about that, so instead of ending your comment with it, you should have started there.
"move on - this is how to find causal raiding guild with good people, not just baddies"

It's not black and white - it's not "raid 4-days a week or gtfo" - there are plenty of options in-between, but they're not always easy to find because their recruitment drowns in the "HC 9/14, 4-days a week" noise.

There are causal guilds - you just have to work a bit harder finding them and at this point of the expansion, recruiting is a real bitch anyhow, so should probably have your sights set to finding a decent guild for WoD...

- - - Updated - - -

Wait, no. Way more than 4. Eh... doesn't matter, still Greedy Milking Company! Yeah!

Well not much more - that's still piss poor.. and some of those are just lol, like Xavius and Skullcrusher.. there's like 10 people alive on both of them.

[Primalthirst]

Complaining about 3-4 raid days?

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6621771776/h1D0E3E1F/

Infracted, post constructively. As well, removed the [IMG] code.

[The Kao]

Next up, complaining about 3 hour raids and 6 hours total per week.

Seriously people, if you don't have the time then don't raid, but if you want to raid start considering WoW as a hobby that you have to invest time into like any other freakin hobby. Even outstanding players have no value for a community if they are never available.

[lunchbox2042]

Why give gear to someone who can only show up on farm nights? In 10 man, especially early on in tiers gear drops are limited so why choose to gear up more people if you don't have to?

[Tharkkun]

Wow 3 already....

What i am saying: Some people who can raid 2 days can actually play better than some WHO play 3-4 times a week. And with guilds struggling to find recruits, they could look at another market.

Most games you play other than WoW does not require you to play 3-4-5 nights a week to finish the games hardmode. The Schedule is set by the community.

This is not a bashing thread - but a discussion. The people saying "people with less time dont deserve to see hardmodes" are just embarrasing themselves, so stop it.

It doesn't really matter how skilled you are. Unless you've beaten the encounters already or are being carried you're going to progress slower at 2 days a week. Then if you're stuck on a boss for 3 hours you either have to make the choice of skipping the rest of the instance or continuing progression. This only leaves 1/2 to 1 full raid day working on new bosses.

That's how my guild goes it but it leaves 0 room for error, vacations, sick, rage quit, etc. So we're 3/14. Occasionally we'll stuff a Sunday night in. In many cases this is too slow for a progression raider.

[Azrile]

Next up, complaining about 3 hour raids and 6 hours total per week.

Seriously people, if you don't have the time then don't raid, but if you want to raid start considering WoW as a hobby that you have to invest time into like any other freakin hobby. Even outstanding players have no value for a community if they are never available.

His problem isn´t wanting to raid and having limited time, his problem is wanting to raid in 6hrs per week and do heroic progression. If you have 6hrs per week, then raid normal and be content about it.

[Deleted]

My guild has always been a 2 raid night a week guild, 3 hours per night. While we are obviously not striving for realm first, we have a steady progression over the course of the raid tiers. Right now we are at 8/14 HC and have just started on Malkorok. So they do exist, and quite frankly I prefer it this way. I hardly ever get burnt out on a raid before the next one is released, and get to look forward to my raid nights every week. Keep looking and you will find one that fits your needs. My guild is called The Royal Order btw and we are found on Nordrassil EU.