Guild Wars 2 Review Update: The Long Game

[Deleted]

I agree, sadly gw2 doesn't give me the good things i get from something like wow that I want. I want to get near gear every few months. It keeps me coming back. I also like the holy trinity. The combat isnt very fun to me because its difficult for me to tell when certain mobs are doing something I should avoud. I wish they would have went with amore wildstar telegraph system. Gw2 is a great game though, it just isn't for me.

?????

It's so obvious to see attacks unless they're tiny mobs - which only tickle anyway?

[zed zebes]

For me personally it would greatly improve GW2 if they made some sort of "soft trinity"... Putting an emphasis on support characters who could maybe throw an AoE heal here and there (something like staff ele water 3 and 5) but more frequently and more potent versions, or if you have a tanky character maybe add a spell like Taunt and more active mitigation. Point is, they shouldn't be absolutely necessary for everyday content, but would greatly improve dungeon experience for example.

This would also mean changing bosses/etc for the better -- less oneshot attacks but more frequently, better telegraphed abilities, and so on. I'm kinda getting really bored of the zerker meta. Would actually love to play a support/heal Ele in dungeons.

There's soft roles within the game. You can see it in the open world and in WvWvW. Even a bit in sPvP. It's the dungeon PVE encounter design that doesn't demand roles and so people think they don't exist.

Which is why I think it will take time. People judge the PVE in GW2 very much so based upon their first dungeon experience or their dungeon experience as a whole. The reason for this is because previous MMOs based their difficulty and design around instanced content. There's very little about GW2 that shouts to the player that they favor instanced PVE design as their focus and what should be the player's focus.

Opening Balthazar and LS events like the Nightmare Tower both require people playing support roles. Even the Scarlet Invasions were done faster if you had small groups with good control, damage and durability to knock out invasions while the larger groups slowly finished the events. However, because people see open world as zergy spammy loot farming, they rarely engaged the Invasions on a smarter, faster level once the rewards were put behind completing it. I feel this again is part of the trinity/instanced mindset.

[Svifnymr]

What did they change about the dailies? I think they are the same really.

I have never given a flying fuck about daily quests unless they are tied to endgame progression. Whatever dailies I finished in GW2 were surely by accident. So perhaps there is something I am missing about the change, but it seems like just a UI difference.

The first dailies were "do these 5 things", then they changed them to a long list for pve and another long list for pvp, complete 5 of the items, but only one category counts. Now they have merged pve and pvp dailies into one, so you can complete any 5, but there's usually only like 5-6 pve ones to do so maybe that's the core complaint, they've reduced the variety.

Unless there's something else about them I'm missing.

[Valeron]

haven't played much lately but I did notice that about the dailies. I'm not really thrilled about that change

[Fkiolaris]

The first dailies were "do these 5 things", then they changed them to a long list for pve and another long list for pvp, complete 5 of the items, but only one category counts. Now they have merged pve and pvp dailies into one, so you can complete any 5, but there's usually only like 5-6 pve ones to do so maybe that's the core complaint, they've reduced the variety.

Unless there's something else about them I'm missing.

Every day you get a roll of 10 random dailies out of which you can do 5, while no 5 are from the same activity so you need to do 2 out of sPvP/PvE/WvW. Also, because the dailies are randomly selected, you need to check what they are and actively pursuit the relevant activities, rather than how it was before when all the dailies were available and the relevant meters for each were filling up as you were playing. At least this is how the changes were between 15th-18th April when I last bothered to log in.

But really, that is the least of my issues. It's their new trait system that completely killed the game for me as a new player and that's the same feeling all the new players I spoke to in-game had.

[Lane]

Yes, that's a horrible change to the dailies. Yet another thing that's gotten progressively worse throughout the lifetime of GW2. The original dailies were by far the best.

[Valeron]

I don't think you mean the original dailies. The original ones were more restrictive than the ones we have now. The second change of the dailies were the best, lots of options there.

[Lightfist]

And the flip side of that argument is with how many things a new game like GW2 got right, why haven't older MMOs implemented them yet? I mean WoW is trying to copy GW2 concepts as fast as they can, but their development is so freakishly slow.

What original concept has GW2 contributed that you feel would work well within WoW?

Don't get me wrong, I like GW2, I just don't see what WoW should be taking from it.

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?????

It's so obvious to see attacks unless they're tiny mobs - which only tickle anyway?

I'd have to disagree, especially when your entire screen is covered by spell effects.

If I can't even see the boss, how am I supposed to see its special attack animations?

[Valeron]

WoW would have to completely change a lot of their systems in order to implement a lot of the stuff from GW2. And with how WoW is still wildly successful, it just wouldn't be worth it. They would be better off putting new ideas into a new game, which I imagine is what they are doing with their secret mmo project

[Deleted]

[...]

I'd have to disagree, especially when your entire screen is covered by spell effects.

If I can't even see the boss, how am I supposed to see its special attack animations?

Well if you're with 20+ people attacking a boss I can understand it's hard to see sometimes, but those who are with a ton of people are rarely that difficult anyway (read; world bosses). So I don't see the problem honestly :')

[Lightfist]

Well if you're with 20+ people attacking a boss I can understand it's hard to see sometimes, but those who are with a ton of people are rarely that difficult anyway (read; world bosses). So I don't see the problem honestly :')

The problem is, regardless if it's 'hard', is that it's not fun. That should be the primary concern of any game, as far as I'm concerned.

I think MMOs will continue to move away from the holy trinity. It's not all that common outside of MMORPGs. As people adjust to more active combat, there will be less and less need for the more static trinity design.

The 'Holy Trinity' is a RPG staple, and one of the most common fantasy tropes I can think of.

[Deleted]

I disagree completely :') But w/e

[Lightfist]

I disagree completely :') But w/e

... you disagree that fun should be priority? Or are you asserting that, despite not being able to properly engage it, boss fights where you are unable to see its mechanics are still fun?

[Fencers]

The first dailies were "do these 5 things", then they changed them to a long list for pve and another long list for pvp, complete 5 of the items, but only one category counts. Now they have merged pve and pvp dailies into one, so you can complete any 5, but there's usually only like 5-6 pve ones to do so maybe that's the core complaint, they've reduced the variety.

Unless there's something else about them I'm missing.

Hm. So variety. Okay, that's fair I suppose. Though I don't have any thing to compare to previously in game.

As I said, whatever dailies I achieved in my course of play were purely accidental. Haha.

The 'Holy Trinity' is a RPG staple, and one of the most common fantasy tropes I can think of.

Say, what? The "holy trinity" is totally artificial and relatively new convention in RPGs.

I don't dislike having a role trinity. Though they are definitely not one of the most common fantasy tropes. Unless you are using some kind of personal outliner for what constitutes a role trinity. Which I don't have an issue with either.

It's just weird because I never played a session of a tabletop RPG where roles had any required value. And the vast majority of CRPGs do not have role enforcement of any kind.

[nevermore]

If they made boss attacks more obvious and reduced all the spell-effect clutter, maybe they could add some extra layers of difficulty/mechanics.

I liked how they made attacks obvious on the marionette minibosses... I feel it's the right direction.

[Deleted]

... you disagree that fun should be priority? Or are you asserting that, despite not being able to properly engage it, boss fights where you are unable to see its mechanics are still fun?

I disagree with you as a whole. I find it easy to see. And therefore I am enjoying myself. I don't know how it looks like on your computer, but the only way I cannot see what is going on with at least 50+ people, and even then it depends on the boss. If it's smaller than Maw it might be an issue, anything larger is no problem at all.

[Lightfist]

Say, what? The "holy trinity" is totally artificial and relatively new convention in RPGs.

I don't dislike having a role trinity. Though they are definitely not one of the most common fantasy tropes. Unless you are using some kind of personal outliner for what constitutes a role trinity. Which I don't have an issue with either.

It's just weird because I never played a session of a tabletop RPG where roles had any required value. And the vast majority of CRPGs do not have role enforcement of any kind.

Just because the roles aren't required, that doesn't mean they aren't there.

Surely you've noticed the trope of a 'fighter' that takes damage, a 'thief'/'wizard'/ranger' that deals it, and a 'cleric' or 'priest' that supports the group? It's the iconic adventuring group. Honestly, I think it's only natural; even if the roles aren't necessary or required, having them there helps to promote group diversity.

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I disagree with you as a whole. I find it easy to see. And therefore I am enjoying myself. I don't know how it looks like on your computer, but the only way I cannot see what is going on with at least 50+ people, and even then it depends on the boss. If it's smaller than Maw it might be an issue, anything larger is no problem at all.

Okay, but there are a multiple world bosses that are smaller - including the ones that are the most profitable to farm.

[Karizee]

New players sometimes have difficulty with boss skill animations because they aren't looking at the boss. I usually send them over to practice with an Ettin or something so they can see the wind up and cast, once you learn the animations of each boss or each family of creatures you start to understand the rhythm of play.

As far as screen clutter from masses of players, I did Lyssa last night and there had to be 150 players on that little platform, ye gods xD

[Lightfist]

New players sometimes have difficulty with boss skill animations because they aren't looking at the boss. I usually send them over to practice with an Ettin or something so they can see the wind up and cast, once you learn the animations of each boss or each family of creatures you start to understand the rhythm of play.

As far as screen clutter from masses of players, I did Lyssa last night and there had to be 150 players on that little platform, ye gods xD

All I'm asking from A.net is an option to turn down spell effects.

Oh, and they have to remove Skyhammer. I won't budge on that.

[Deleted]

Just checking do, you DO have 'Effect LOD' turned on?

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New players sometimes have difficulty with boss skill animations because they aren't looking at the boss. I usually send them over to practice with an Ettin or something so they can see the wind up and cast, once you learn the animations of each boss or each family of creatures you start to understand the rhythm of play.

As far as screen clutter from masses of players, I did Lyssa last night and there had to be 150 players on that little platform, ye gods xD

I noticed the exact same thing. Some people also have a hard time noticing what is going on in the game in general. It took my boyfriend 3 months to learn he has to check his chat once in a while. Even today he can play for 30 minutes without looking once. He said he's not able to 'multitask that'. Eh??? If you have to focus, I get it. But for 30 minutes straight?
BUT he also does the same in FPS tho. He never checks his map while I scream 'behind you!' :')

And even if you don't understand the animations yet, the mechanics are often pretty easy. It's either an attack right away, or after three seconds. I count 'one, two, dodge' in some situation if it's new and it works all the time.