Why is exclusivity now such a bad thing in MMO's.

[PosPosPos]

Exclusivity only matters when said exclusive item is rare and takes no skill to get.

[Djuntas]

Cause mentality changed inn players coming to the MMO genre.

Back inn TBC I was okay with not clearing, or getting the lastest gear. I knew I wasen't good enough for it, and so on.

[Templis]

Cause mentality changed inn players coming to the MMO genre.

Back inn TBC I was okay with not clearing, or getting the lastest gear. I knew I wasen't good enough for it, and so on.

Yep, same. It's weird comparing this mindset to the one that is currently prevalent in the game. I joined mid BC and never ONCE did I think 'I HAVE to clear SWP or this game will have been a waste'. Then again, all raiding tiers were relevant at the end of the expansion, so it's certainly also due to Blizzard's philosophy on progression and how it should work.

[Nihilist74]

Exclusivity of opportunity is bad in all forms. Everyone who pays there subscription for wow deserves the opportunity to win the nice gear, mounts and titles. Should it be given to them? I don't think so. You should have the opportunity to earn it though. Personally I wouldn't care if LFR gear had a very plain appearance compared to normal raid gear. I think that most of the gear in the game is ridiculous looking anyways. I do care about what the statistics on the gear is and how it will help my performance. The opportunities to win and obtain gear in the mop expansion were not enjoyable for me. The daily quest rep grind, scerarios, timeless isle, and bad rng luck in LFR were all very tedious.
I enjoyed it more in the cataclysm expansion when you could run the troll and twilight end game dungeons all day and get a trinket, weapon and armor that you needed to get your foot in the door of the latest raid. I enjoyed that you could run all the dungeons you wanted to and accumulate justice points and valor points to purchase the gear you needed.

[Powerogue]

I just hate it when the exclusivity hits a loop.

I can't raid karazhan because I don't have karazhan-level gear. Where do I get that gear? karazhan.

That seems to have gotten better this expansion with the ability to get practice at the bosses with raid finder under less pressure, as well as various ways to get gear of the item level you want.

Something like karazhan attunement, where you beat slightly lower level content to prove you know what you're doing, that's fine though.

As for showing off your skill at old content, don't they still lock most of the old mounts that require something special to do? The amani warbear, for example. That'd be something you can always show off.

[Instructor Soki]

It's not just in WoW or MMOs. It's in every single genre of every single game. There's even starting to rampant bitching in shooters about having to unlock things and they should get everything at once because they bought the game.

They should with shooters, because a grind in an FPS is stupid.

[Deleted]

Yep, same. It's weird comparing this mindset to the one that is currently prevalent in the game. I joined mid BC and never ONCE did I think 'I HAVE to clear SWP or this game will have been a waste'. Then again, all raiding tiers were relevant at the end of the expansion, so it's certainly also due to Blizzard's philosophy on progression and how it should work.

Problem is with WolK Blizzard began treating trying to make their games have single player stories were everyone gets told they're 'the chosen one' whos going to kill the Lich King. Now everyone players the game like a singleplayer RPG and expects to kill the expansion boss at the end.

[Deleted]

I still want see some kind of proof of all this entitlement, because we continue to talk about it all the time, yet it is nothing but personal experiences and opinions, which have a tendency to be overreacting/exaggeration.

[Deleted]

"I work 168 hours a week, I got 5 wives and 7 kids, I don't have much time to play this game so make everything accessible to me, I paid for this game!"

This is pretty much the new self entitled crowd games are catering for. And that is why we can't have time consuming things in games anymore.

[Deleted]

It's not just in WoW or MMOs. It's in every single genre of every single game. There's even starting to rampant bitching in shooters about having to unlock things and they should get everything at once because they bought the game.

On the note of FPS with unlockables. It is a serious and horrible problem with the genre. Two particular reasons for this, 1 it creates a very unbalanced play if the best guns or most effective guns are the last unlocks, so a person coming to the game some time after release is handicapped all the hours that he needs to play until he can get on the same level as other. Battlefield is especially bad when it comes to this, since vehicles also have unlocks, BF3 fighter jets only had guns and flares and they had to grind for hours to get the best weapons for it, meanwhile a person that already had those things could run them out of the sky in two seconds.
2, let's give a little scenario, Jack really likes shotguns in his FPS. He buys a FPS and is excited to play with shotguns, but the first shotgun is only available at level 15. So Jack play for 6 hours, with a assault rifle that he dislikes, to get his shotgun, only to find out it is a horrible weapon and not fun to play with. The next shotgun is unlocked at level 30, he plays for 10 hours more and unlocks it, that one is not fun either. After grinding many hours with weapons he dislike he finally unlocks the shotgun he likes... That is the problem, I hate that FPS went the route of unlockables, it is even grotesque that people have to kill X amount of people to get a scope they like, instead of the FPS having all the weapons and equipment from the start so that people can have genuine fun from the second they start instead of a treadmill of mediocre experience.

[Deleted]

I know this may seem like some troll topic on purpose to get people riled up, but I'm genuinely curious.

I've noticed a lot of threads even general comments from people about bringing things back and "oh you can just link the achi anyway". I don't know what's wrong with wanting exclusive items/rewards for hard effort put in at the time of relevant content. Why do so many people feel self entitled just because they pay the monthly sub amount. It's like buying a gym membership, then complaining because you don't have time to use all the equipment and demand they give you some (I know this is apples and oranges, but it's the best example I could think of at the time of writing).

Couple of reasons - 1 is that in order to get the really good stuff in wow (and other MMO's like it) what you need is not individual skill at the game, but excellence at the meta game of man management, guild and raid organisation. Obviously most people don't have that and will never have that. Rather than seeing the good stuff and be inspired, they see the good stuff, realise it's gated behind non game related factors and then stop caring.

Now don't get me wrong, I was like this once back when I was younger, I wanted everything for nothing and thought it was unfair that the people who were more skilled than me got better stuff than me, but eventually you learn it's just the way life is. If you want it bad enough you try harder, if you don't have the time to in a video game then you're SoL. But times are changing and I don't know why.

Back in the day the people who you are talking about didn't even hit max level and so had no opinion on endgame. They'd never even hit the issue of content being de facto locked to them because of the need to organise etc - they were low level and pottering around duskwood or whatnot. They still had oceans of stuff to swim through, all of which would lead to their character getting more powerful. Atm, blizzard rushes everyone to endgame, where they then have an opinion on endgame.

People pay for content and for stuff to do. If raiding is the only content, expect to see an increase in demands for it to be actually completable by the average player.

I remember back when I was a newb and I wanted everything, but yet when I inspected someone and seen their epic mount/gear, it didn't piss me off, alright I was envious but it gave me drive to try and get to that point of attaining it myself.

So sure, this guy has lets say.. Atiesh *not the best example* you see him and you think holy shit, he was around back then and he put in the effort and he got that legendary (or mount, or whatever). Now lets say theirs 20 people walking around with it, and it's still obtainable, you don't inspect every single one of them until you find the one which had it way back when, you just think "meh".

Now this is where people say "why does it matter what other people think about you?". If I didn't care, I'd go play a singleplayer game, I like achieving things and showing them off, I like getting a CM set, or an epic mount and telling people about it. Why is it a bad thing for wanting recognition for your achievements/things you've done that used to be difficult/challenging/required a lot more effort.

TLDR: Why is it a bad thing for wanting recognition for your achievements/things you've done that used to be difficult/challenging/required a lot more effort.

Because blizzard have rushed the entire playerbase to endgame and then forced them to raid. If those people then stall because there is no progress within their graps, they will quit the game. Blizzard wants sub money, so the raiding game has to be made doable by the average person who doesn't have super organisation, all week to farm mats etc - hence LFR, soloable legendaries etc

Basically, blame blizzard for removing the levelling experience and forcing people who have no place raiding into raiding.

[Pool of the Dead]

It is mostly because of the entitled morons who think because they pay $15 a month that they should get everything in the game with little to no effort.

"I CAN'T GET HEROIC MOUNTS, THEY SHOULD DROP ON ALL DIFFICULTIES!!" Etc. Mostly people these days have lost the ability to actually work for rewards and now think throwing money at a screen should reward them just as much.

It actually reminds me of a Guy I knew, that complained about not seeing the "bonus clip" at the end of a game he owned since it required 100% completion. His argument was since he bought it he should be able to see it.

When I gave him the reasonable answer of "You can see it, just beat the game 100%" he said "I don't have time for that! I'm not a nerd like you!"

To which I told him he could go fuck himself and that companies aren't restricting his content, he is and if he didn't have the time why buy the game.

[Lazuli]

"I work 168 hours a week, I got 5 wives and 7 kids, I don't have much time to play this game so make everything accessible to me, I paid for this game!"

This is pretty much the new self entitled crowd games are catering for. And that is why we can't have time consuming things in games anymore.

Exactly. I still don't get what goes through peoples minds that have 7 wives and 20 kids and real life is just too much for them to handle to raid an hour or two a night. WHY ARE YOU PLAYING AN MMO!?

But then, MMO are now catering to this crowd unfortunately.. be happy we still even have heroic raiding.

The real problem lies in how lazy these people are, you can't tell me you don't have time to raid after getting home from work. Let's say you work a typical 9 to 5 job. You get home, and can easily stay up until 12 AM (8 hours sleep, 1 hour to get ready). At the time of getting home you have a total of about 7 hours, and keep in mind most casual guilds only raid like 3 days a week, 1-2 hours a night. That is decent progression right there, assuming you aren't a bunch of baddies.

I work full-time and raid on week days so I can hang out in RL on weekends. Yeah, it's actually easier for me to raid on week DAYS. Lazy excuses. It's all bullshit in my eyes. It's easier to say "I just don't have time" than admit you don't want to put in the effort and earn your rewards.

I do wish MMOs were still more exclusive but catering to the lazy players makes more money, I can't hate on devs for going this route but rather hate this generation of gamers. And if I get any silly retorts like "I have kids, I can't maintain a proper raid schedule" I'm sorry but you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO in the first place.. there are plenty of more casual genres that you can simply drop and pick back up a few minutes later.

But it doesn't really matter at this point because MMOs have become a casual genre where you can drop at any time lol..

[Templis]

I just hate it when the exclusivity hits a loop.

I can't raid karazhan because I don't have karazhan-level gear. Where do I get that gear? karazhan.

That seems to have gotten better this expansion with the ability to get practice at the bosses with raid finder under less pressure, as well as various ways to get gear of the item level you want.

Something like karazhan attunement, where you beat slightly lower level content to prove you know what you're doing, that's fine though.

As for showing off your skill at old content, don't they still lock most of the old mounts that require something special to do? The amani warbear, for example. That'd be something you can always show off.

I don't even remember players requesting a specific ilvl or gearscore back then. The prerequisite for getting into Kara pugs on my server was:

1) Being hit capped
2) Having heroic dungeon gear
3) Crafted items here or there

I did Kara the first time on my spriest after making the frozen shadoweave set. I think I also got the epic ring from H Mana Tombs. That was it. My off-hand was a green with +Shadow Damage. The progression loop only really became prevalent with gearscore, and it's been in the game ever since, having gotten to the point now where pugs are asking for normal/heroic geared players to clear through flex mode.

[Tastyfish]

Maybe there is just too much shit out there that is the same thing over and over and there is a huge case of burnout going on.

[Terahertz]

The issue isn't about recognition, but in wanting to feel superior to those you deem inferior by some personal and artificial standards.
Rather than simply being happy for progressing in a way that suits yourself.
I don't demand the same rewards from LFR as from normal/flex, but I object to those who want everything removed from LFR simply because they are too damn arrogant to accept that LFR suits an audience that is not them.

Heroic is still exclusive, but it isn't just all raiding being inaccessible to a large portion.

We're not talking about recognition here. We're talking about exclusive stuff and people wanting everything without putting effort into it.

I was/am the same as OP when I saw people with special items/mounts. I remember my first time getting to Goldshire and seeing a night elf hunter sitting on his nightsaber with an enchanted polearm. I was so jealous and wanted what he had; a mount and a shiny enchanted weapon. Did I complain? Demanding those items because I paid €15,- per month as well as having purchased WoW for like €20,-?

No. It gave me the drive to level up, play the game and progress my character.

Just think for yourself: If you're a new player and you get your mount from the get go, have all sorts of cool looking items and have access to basically everything from the start, WOULD you continue playing WoW, or would you get bored within the first few days of playing?

I, myself, would feel bored and feel like there's nothing to be done anymore, which is the case for many nowadays, including me, since everything is so easily accessible.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't get motivated to play or do stuff when everyone can get similar rewards or has access to similar content by doing an easier version of something alike.

For example: I used to be envious of those who saw raid content. It made raiding seem like a true adventure simply because I couldn't see it. One day my curiousity hit the roof and I WANTED to see the content so badly. What did I do? I joined a guild which raided. I raided for a month or two and enjoyed it very much because it felt like I was doing something special. The content seemed special and dangerous and fun simply because it was gated by having to be in an organized raid.

Nowadays I can just q for LFR, see the content and get bored by it. Yay. 0 motivation in doing normal mode at all.

[Banzhe]

But why, has it always been this way and people generally kept it to themselves, was their some big revolution I missed, I don't understand, or maybe I'm just noticing it more.

Not a revolution per say, but Blizzard changed the fundamental structure of the game resulting in an extremely negative curve, personally I believe it started with Cataclysm, because that was literally the expansion where everyone had everything on whatever number of characters they had.

This drove a lot of players who would normally never get 5% of what they got in Cataclysm, to expect the same for as little to no effort it required then (Maybe that was just Blizzards way of trying to see where the balance between accessibility and reward for effort was).

You can then flip it again with this expansion, which I personally don't see as being harder compared to others before it, quite the contrary actually, the only thing I find tedious is the gearing at end-game for a freshly dinged 90.., you get a choice between two evils, LFR or Timeless Isle, both are in my opinion extremely bland and horrible options.

Timeless Isle is literally running around slaying the same mobs over and over till your mind starts hallucinating, hoping to get some burden's (or collecting coins till you feel like bombing blizzards hq)

LFR is pretty much the same, you hope you have good rng so you don't need to go there more than a couple of times, and you hope the group you get actually wants to finish fast by doing what they can and not have half of them afk, or that there's sufficient raiders to carry the majority.

Blizzard simply handed out free candy for so long now, that it's expected to continue.., just look at any forum and the amount of threads all revolving around the same; I am entitled because I pay the same as XY or Z.

[zingar]

entitlement and probably something to do with the mainstream audience getting into WoW and blizzard listening to them

[Austilias]

The whole "everyone's a winner/nobody's a loser" syndrome is largely responsible; which has long been pushed upon kids, never mind those who are older.

The logic nowadays seems to be "You can be a winner, but nobody needs to see it!". The argument that you can still "link your achievement" is entirely specious at best. It would be like everyone in the Olympics getting the same colour of medal; only for the Gold Medal winner to be told that he can "link his achievement" if he wants to distinguish himself from the other competitors. There is the argument that this is no longer the case given tier sets/etc; but thankfully Blizzard is moving in the right direction by removing tier sets from Raid Finder.

[Deleted]

I'm wondering how many people here who think exclusivity is a bad thing actually played TBC, I did I played a prot warrior I joined in 2007, learned how to tank in heroics and I would farm them for hours without setting foot in a raid (they were fun and challenging on their own.) I pugged karazahn first few bosses, I never even cared that I didnt see the last boss of kara I was just happy to clear what we could. I joined a guild and progressed full kara which was probably one of my greatest moments in wow did a couple of bosses in ZA (didnt matter we didnt clear it and it certainly didnt matter we couldnt meet the time requirement.) killed gruul and magtheridon eventually, cleared first few bosses of sc and TK and thats really where my BC experience ended and I was happy.
There was content for everyone of every skill level and item level, right now there is one raid in game for everyone, think about that one single raid that everyone is doing.