Dear Pro-Flying Players: A Question

[Deleted]

Comparable in design effort, perhaps, but not in its actual effect on gameplay.

The game is actually built around gliding; scalable mountains are everywhere so you're not really short of a place to take off. So yes, it affects gameplay (and is actually gameplay in itself when it comes to raiding other players and getting the drop). You are able to glide over/to just about anything you want.

What you're trying to do here is point at other games and say "they didn't include flying, it *must* be because it's bad for gameplay" while ignoring every other facet of those games, not to mention the cost of developing the world with flight in mind in the first place. WoW can afford it. Most new MMOs can barely afford their promises as is. It's not a cheap thing to create.

[deadman1]

Most other games can afford to make flyable worlds. Most games are just textured facades.

WoW also happens to have flying, and it also happens to be the only game with 7 million subscribers.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Most other MMOs hardly have the open world to support it or use a fine grained portal/waypoint system. Tera, Aion, ESO, SWTOR, Everquest 2, Ragnarok Online, etc.. all of them play out on relativly short maps with loading screens. Aion actually has flight but uses it very diffrently, because it isn't just "swimming in air" as WoWs flight is. Lineage 2 has flight as well, but (at least it used to be) heavily restricted to people owning a castle (but everything was a hardcore grind in that game).

[Eace]

Dear Pro-Flying Players,

I have seen you make numerous arguments about why flying is an integral, enjoyable part of World of Warcraft, that in no way negatively affects the game. Your support of flying has been unwavering, budged by neither Blizzard's arguments nor those of your fellow players. You are adamant in your stance, and clearly believe it very much.

So, my question to you is this: If flying is so much fun, and has no negative impact on the gameplay, why do no other MMOs use it?

Is it time constraints? Lack of resources? Are we to believe that big budget MMOs like ESO and SW:toR simply couldn't figure it out? What could possibly be their reasoning for not including a feature that, according to many of you, is so essential to World of Warcraft?

Help me understand.

Are you saying that flying hasn't been an integral part of WoW since TBC? Or that it has no positive sides to it whatsoever?

And if your support of no flying is so unwavering, budged by neither Blizzard's decision to keep it in the game or the arguments of your fellow players, let me ask you the age old question: Do you use your flying mount?

If you do, this whole thread is a huge pile of hypocrisy. If you don't, why do you care if others do?

--

Personally I'm indifferent about flying, and I'll reserve my judgement for when WoD is here.

[Lightfist]

Gliding is flight. Unless you want to ignore dictionary definitions and cling to your own. Again moving the goalposts fallacy.

Moving the goalposts fallacy? lol, okay. You're using the fallacy fallacy.

Gliding is not comparable to self-propelled, controllable flight.

The game is actually built around gliding; scalable mountains are everywhere so you're not really short of a place to take off. So yes, it affects gameplay (and is actually gameplay in itself when it comes to raiding other players and getting the drop). You are able to glide over/to just about anything you want.

What you're trying to do here is point at other games and say "they didn't include flying, it *must* be because it's bad for gameplay" while ignoring every other facet of those games, not to mention the cost of developing the world with flight in mind in the first place. WoW can afford it. Most new MMOs can barely afford their promises as is. It's not a cheap thing to create.

I didn't say it didn't impact gameplay, only that it didn't in the same way. It doesn't.

That you cannot glide form anywhere at anytime is enough of a difference.

[Deleted]

So, my question to you is this: If flying is so much fun, and has no negative impact on the gameplay, why do no other MMOs use it?

Why does it matter? If I find flying fun and especially more fun than being dazed from my mount all the time, that's how it is. I don't play other MMOs.

[Lightfist]

Are you saying that flying hasn't been an integral part of WoW since TBC? Or that it has no positive sides to it whatsoever?

And if your support of no flying is so unwavering, budged by neither Blizzard's decision to keep it in the game or the arguments of your fellow players, let me ask you the age old question: Do you use your flying mount?

If you do, this whole thread is a huge pile of hypocrisy. If you don't, why do you care if others do?

--

Personally I'm indifferent about flying, and I'll reserve my judgement for when WoD is here.

Of course I use my flying mount. The game is designed with flying mounts in mind - to not use one if to shoot yourself in the foot.

The question is if that's better for the game design.

[Dolus]

Wildstar plans on implementing flying mounts.

"Q: Will there be flying mounts?

A: Yes! the world is built for flight and Wildstar will provide flying mounts. We have a variety of flying mounts and experiment with different kinds of powers. We are using a lot of effort to make sure that movement is fun. 50% of your time playing an MMO are spent moving around and it has to be fun. This is why we have super-speed, super-jump, double-jump, or loftite for ground movement.

We tease a lot of these high level things like flying mounts in quests, or environmental effects, where we throw you in the air and you need to land somewhere, get a speed-buff for a temporary mount or flight with limited access. As you get to higher level we give you more abilities to choose and then a permanent mount with some abilities. The philosophy is to give you movement types early on and you can choose the movement type that you enjoy the most."

Jeremy Gaffneys, Executive Producer of Wildstar

[Exeris]

A lot of MMO's allow you to teleport to places that you have previously visited, which sort of eliminates the need for flying (and also prevents people from flying to places they have not explored on foot). This obviously creates it's own problems, as I got rewarded quite handsomely in GW1 to 'run people' to the next town.

WoW on the other hand only has a limited number of teleports/portals, and most are reserved for Mages.

You want to play taxi for those willing to pay for it? Can't say I see a problem with that, lazy people will always look for "free rides".

[Eace]

Of course I use my flying mount. The game is designed with flying mounts in mind - to not use one if to shoot yourself in the foot.

The question is if that's better for the game design.

The only downside to not using one is that your questing takes longer. But isn't that what you want?

[Deleted]

I do know why people hate to see flying go, they don't like change or they say it shouldn't be part of an RPG, saying you should be getting stronger not weaker. Now when the last part is a bit of a valid point, they still don't realize we've always went from flying to no flying at the start of each expansion. So that point can be thrown out the window. That leaves us with that people don't like change, but some changes have to be made to a game to make it more fun, instead of having as much features as possible.

Oh, before I forget, some people just like flying. But I just want people to know, you can have all of Azeroth and Outland to fly in the next expansion. It's probably empty so there's space enough for all the pro flyers Have fun flying!

[Vaelorian]

Flying is a feature every game wants to implement eventually, if it hasn't already. But in the case of other MMOs without flying, they're probably just waiting to play that card. Its a big selling point for an expansion, and Blizzard played it very early.

Flying has both negative and positive effects on the game. Everyone can agree on that.

No, not every game wants to implement it eventually. Blizzard would probably want to go back into time and not add it. They said that they regretted that they added it for a multitude of reasons. Yet every "gamer" (especially the ones that never experienced it in other similar games) will ask for flying.

Flying seems so great. And it is great. You save a lot of time. It is nice at times to swoop towards your goal. It looks great from a very narrowminded view.

Flying decreases immersion, more then it adds (because let's face it, it also adds a degree of immersion)
Flying makes the world look empty.
Flying makes questdesigning harder.
Flying makes the world smaller.
Flying makes the landscape irrelevant - it now becomes something you like/dislike visually and does not affect you in any way anymore.
Flying makes you communicate (potentially) less to others, because it is very easy to find the area you want to visit. Getting lost in the air is not an option, so asking for directions is not needed.

So yeah flying impacts the game heavily. It is a great QoL feature, yet it destroys or diminishes other aspects of the game. Combine this flying feature with other stuff that has changed or become more convenient over time and you'll see why the game is less immersive then it was before. Why people feel more entitled and not very communicative unless to spout their malcontent towards their peers.

Flying alone isn't the reason why the game is as it is, but it is one of the factors.

[Deleted]

Flying was implemented as a feature at a time when Outland was the relevant content, with its huge chasms, floating mountains, and generally unconventional geographical features. In other words, it was a pain, if not impossible to travel to a lot of places on Outland. Hence, flying was required and made a lot of people happy.

Just an example of the many reasons stated in this whole topic about why flying exists WoW, that makes no sense. For this specific example: Flying does not exist because of the Outland geography, Blizzard already decided you could fly before/while they built Outland, and adjusted the terrain accordingly. It's silly to say that Blizzard would have made a lot of mountains etc. and only afterwards thought: "Luulz... Can't reach by foot/mount, we need flying." They aren't completely retarded you know.

Some MMO's don't have a persistent world, but rather individually loaded zones. Yes this would make flying pretty wierd because you won't be able to see the next map and get a loading screen in mid-air. However the game works like this because they chose to not ever implement flying. It's not written in stone that flying is impossible in games that have individual loading zones.

People here are fitting flying in games that clearly are designed with the absence of flying in mind. Ofcourse it wouldn't work.
This topic makes a good point. I've played MMO's without flying, or even without mounts, and I didn't miss a thing.

[Eace]

I do know why people hate to see flying go, they don't like change or they say it shouldn't be part of an RPG, saying you should be getting stronger not weaker. Now when the last part is a bit of a valid point, they still don't realize we've always went from flying to no flying at the start of each expansion. So that point can be thrown out the window. That leaves us with that people don't like change, but some changes have to be made to a game to make it more fun, instead of having as much features as possible.

Correct, but we have always went back to flying close to or at max level. Now there's a possibility that there will be no flying at all in the new content. So that's what freaks some people out.

[Lightfist]

The only downside to not using one is that your questing takes longer. But isn't that what you want?

That, and there are obstacles that can only be surpassed by flying, and the game is designed with flying in mind.

[Deleted]

That you cannot glide form anywhere at anytime is enough of a difference.

See my second point then. A moderator can lock this I suppose, seeing as you're just another whiner.

"I really wish I could travel everywhere on foot.."

"You can, use your ground mount."

"But you'll just fly over everything and that makes my experience invalid, I wont be happy unless everyone has to travel on foot".

Same old same old.

- - - Updated - - -

That, and there are obstacles that can only be surpassed by flying, and the game is designed with flying in mind.

No there aren't, and no it isn't. You could make that argument for maybe Stormpeaks and Icecrown and a couple of spots in TBC (like Netherstorm). Everything in MoP has been designed without flying in mind because you have to level through it on foot in the first place.

So why would flying at cap be a bad thing again?

[Bender]

Why would we know and why is it relevant to our experiences with WoW? Since I don't play any other MMO I can only speculate. Maybe being restricted to ground in other MMO's isn't such a gargantuan pain in the ass like it is in WoW?

[Eace]

That, and there are obstacles that can only be surpassed by flying--

In Cataclysm, that's for sure. But in every other expansion since TBC, flying has been a perk for max level characters (or close to max level in WotLK). And at max level, you have been through every zone already on foot, so what obstacles could there be?

And if there are said obstacles, why don't you just fly around them and then continue on your ground mount?

--and the game is designed with flying in mind.

You throw this around a lot, but do you care to elaborate? Because you can't use your flying mount in instances (i.e. dungeons, raids, scenarios, battlegrounds, arenas) - because those are the aspects that the main focus is on in WoW.

[Halldur]

I'll be honest. When I started this game flying was a reward at max level. I still want that reward at max level. They opened the box and now have to deal with backlash of trying to close it.

And even though no other MMO uses flying it's a poor argument because no MMO in the Wow era has even come close to that level of success.

[Ossandran]

A question to you OP:

Why compare the #1 MMO to MMOs that it has made go F2P?

Why is it that you want to travel slower, get ganked, and above all deal with daze?