13-Foot Sea Level Rise Now 'Inevitable'

[Endus]

IIRC the timetables of when these changes will be taking place have for the past 10-20 years been shortened and shortened, so when there's someone saying "at the end of the Century" or "in a couple hundred years", I wouldn't be so sure about it. There's a reason these effects have been called "runaway" effects, and why the combined total of them is cumulative, if not even exponential.

Just a thought for those dismissing everything because "it's not happening in our lifetime."

Also, if, like me, you're in your 30s or less, you're probably going to live for another 50 years or so.

And that puts you in a range where you will be seeing significant consequences, in coastal cities and regions. When we talk about sea levels rising by a couple feet, that doesn't seem too threatening, on its own, but you can't take it on its own.

Because the issue isn't where a normal high tide reaches.

It's when you get a spring tide (these happen right around new/full moons, when the Sun and Moon's gravitational pull line up, leading to higher tides), plus an oncoming storm, one that's stronger than most from years past. Because storms are indicative of low pressure systems That low pressure is low air pressure, and while it doesn't seem like a lot, when it's acting on scales like weather does, it "pulls" the ocean up a few feet.

This is basically what happened in New Orleans during Katrina, and in NYC during Sandy. Big storm + high tide = higher sea levels than infrastructure can handle = massive flooding. We aren't talking about when NYC is New Venice and the streets are all canals all the time, we're talking about combination events that lead to overtopping existing infrastructure.

And sure, we can build better infrastructure. But that takes money. And if we're poo-pooing the effects, it doesn't get spent. There's a reason NYC is looking at investing $10 billion or so in a new seawall. Because this isn't theoretical any more, it's already happening.

It doesn't mean we're doomed, or anything ridiculous like that. But we need to start adapting our cities to respond to the coming changes. It's foolish to wait until after the disaster.

[Deleted]

http://www.climatecentral.org/news/u...vel-rise-17436

Those pictures basically tell us which parts of which cities will be forever gone and changed once all of this truly comes to pass.

[Cthulhu 2020]

By the time we read all of the tens of thousands of papers consisting of hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of pages that back AGCC, ten thousand more will have been released. We'd have a lot more in depth knowledge, but we'd come to the same conclusion that we're already at.

Also Lol at global conspiracy fuhrer Obama putting mind control fluorine in water around the world to control scientists for grant money. If you ever wonder why anyone thinks you're a Looney just listen to yourself.

[Spectral]

That doesn't seem to be nothing short of what I have to do anyway when following these references.

What a bizarre complaint. This conversation went something like this:

Spinner - Hey, can someone give me a quick summary.

Me - Links NASA page that summarizes what we know, provides the evidence for it, and references if someone wants to go farther.

Spinner - Gee, they don't state things outright, they use a lot of careful language, is there some way to get more evidence?

Wells/Me - Sure, read the references.

Spinner - But that'll take a long time!

Christ, you can't simultaneously want a quick summary and want all of the data and refuse to go read journal articles.

[Deianeira]

And governments have the power to force regulations and taxes on me by gun. I am a little more concerned about their agenda, thanks.

Sometimes i wonder why so many in USA complain about the government is to big and that it "can force us to do this and that" and that they have more leverage then say Exxon or some other multibilliondollar company. Dont you know that "Government" is nothing but a bunch of PEOPLE that you guys PUT there. And ofc many of them have been approached by companies and is now doing their bidding. But sometimes you fellas seem to think that "Government is some form of company that is bigger then all the companies together" Then why are you saying the government is "the bad guy" when infact most times if a politician is doing something fishy they either own or have interest in some area or is downright in the pocket of Big companies.

Also Incredibale this is not only directed at you but at many ppl in this thread.

[Cthulhu 2020]

So I ran across this picture, and it reminded me of this thread.



Yeah, there's TOTALLY an agenda chasing grants for "pushing" global climate change.

If scientists were in it for the money, there's way more lucrative jobs.

[Zecora]

I suggest you go read on about the facts

...people thinking the human race can do anything to change the life cycle of this planet deserve to be kicked in the nuts.

Oh, the irony...

[metatation]

Its not about refusing to examine data. It's about not wanting to scour a 70 page PDF when I am only really needing to see a paragraphs or sub-sections worth of information in it. If somebody already knows where that paragraph is, then it would be brilliant to know where it is. But of course you just turn it into ad hominem because I don't believe it when you guys say "Yes, it's happening, you are just scientifically retarded."

You sir have alot of patience with all these sheep as you see exactly what this whole rediculous climate change crap actually is: a government power grab under the beguile of saving us from ourselves, very similar to religion back in the day. I can see Ayn Rand turning in her grave as people switch from their own rational being and give themselves to "top men" in government to "fix" climate change lol, instead of seeing this as the crony capitalism that some of them even complain about in this thread, i.e. Solyndra. The Earth constantly changes and there is no piece of legislation that can stop it, but somehow people have been tricked into thinking some piece of legislative paper will "fix" or "stop" or "slow" down climate change lol. Its almost as if they skipped all the documentation on how Earth's climate has changed over the course of 4 billion years, but its ok the scientific papers went back to 10,000 years to evidence their findings lol. Surrendering one's freedom to the phantom of climate change is utterly foolish. Now i'm not against alternative energy sources as long as the government is not involved and its done on a voluntary choice for many seem not to realize that rules and regulations only help the establishment against their arch enemy: competition.

[Clockwork Pinkie]

How can we really prove it's caused by humans and not a natural phenomenon?

You can't. History repeats itself. There were no ice caps on Earth for awhile, we'll survive without them. Endure, Master Wayne.

I have a feeling people get it but they just don't care.

Well when the word "inevitable" is used, then yea, it's hard to care, especially when it's centuries away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkBvsCMxrNU

"We've been repeatedly asked, "Don't you want to leave a better Earth for your grandhildren? And we've all collectivly said, Eh, fuck em" Sums it up about right.

[Garnier Fructis]

I can see Ayn Rand turning in her grave

I thought this post was serious until I got here. Nice one buddy, I almost fell for it.

[ringpriest]

You sir have alot of patience with all these sheep as you see exactly what this whole rediculous climate change crap actually is: a government power grab under the beguile of saving us from ourselves, very similar to religion back in the day. I can see Ayn Rand turning in her grave as people switch from their own rational being and give themselves to "top men" in government to "fix" climate change lol, instead of seeing this as the crony capitalism that some of them even complain about in this thread, i.e. Solyndra. The Earth constantly changes and there is no piece of legislation that can stop it, but somehow people have been tricked into thinking some piece of legislative paper will "fix" or "stop" or "slow" down climate change lol. Its almost as if they skipped all the documentation on how Earth's climate has changed over the course of 4 billion years, but its ok the scientific papers went back to 10,000 years to evidence their findings lol. Surrendering one's freedom to the phantom of climate change is utterly foolish. Now i'm not against alternative energy sources as long as the government is not involved and its done on a voluntary choice for many seem not to realize that rules and regulations only help the establishment against their arch enemy: competition.

And, we have another entry in the fractal wrongness category. Endus (and others) have been both patient and helpfully informative, if they aren't going to convince you, or if you're unwilling to take the information that's been made easily available and convince yourself, nothing is going to make a difference. From the Rational Wiki link to fractal wrongness above:

Debating a person who is fractally wrong leads to infinite regress, as every refutation you make of that person's opinions will lead to a rejoinder, full of half-truths, leaps of poor logic, and outright lies, that requires just as much refutation to debunk as the first one - kind of like a nested Gish Gallop, where each point both surrounds and is surrounded by an equally wrong argument. It is worth noting that being fractally wrong can be handy for the losing side in a public debate, since you are likely to leave your opponent looking baffled and unable to deal with each level of wrongness.

It is as impossible to convince a fractally wrong person of anything as it is to walk around the edge of the Mandelbrot set in finite time.

If you ever get embroiled in a discussion with a fractally wrong person on the Internet — in mailing lists, newsgroups, or forums — your best bet is to say your piece once and ignore any replies, thus saving yourself time.

If you'd like to be entertaining, please, share your version of the story where thousands and thousands of scientists across the world engage in a decades-long conspiracy to fool the public about climate, but are exposed by a rag-tag alliance of heroic billionaires and noble oil companies selflessly working in the public interest.

[Cthulhu 2020]

This pretty much sums up why the "Scientists are just in it for the money, there's a global conspiracy and every scientist is on the payroll" is just wrong. There are easier jobs that pay more. For instance you can jump right into the oil industry at minimum 80k. But I've found that a lot of people in Geo Eco Bio Academia see working for oil as selling your soul for a big paycheck. In other words, there's a lot more money working in climate denial or just straight up for an oil company than as a researcher.

Also, saying that researchers are paid to prove global climate change is just straight up ignorance. It doesn't get any more misinformed than that. There are really only two ways to ignore AGCC at this point.

Plug your ears and go "lalalalala" and refuse to listen to all the evidence, or believe that all of that evidence is just one global conspiracy that thousands of people across the entire world have worked towards in one giant collaboration... i.e. an even bigger conspiracy than the Illuminati, with way less money.

[Garnier Fructis]

Also, saying that researchers are paid to prove global climate change is just straight up ignorance. It doesn't get any more misinformed than that. There are really only two ways to ignore AGCC at this point.

I think one dude earlier in this thread was implying that as long as they're being paid anything, they're on the conspiracy payroll.

Budget conspiracy lol.

[Deleted]

I can see Ayn Rand turning in her grave

Who cares if she's "turning in her grave"? Also, dead people don't turn in their grave. Dead people aren't people. Dead people aren't anything. Dead people aren't.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I think one dude earlier in this thread was implying that as long as they're being paid anything, they're on the conspiracy payroll.

Budget conspiracy lol.

Tens of thousands of scientists around the world all get on skype and decide how to push the global warming agenda! 60 hour work weeks for 60k a year, go conspiracy pay!

[Abysal]

If people would spend a lot more time talking about methods of pulling greenhouse gasses out of the atmosphere, and a lot less time talking about reducing emissions (a.k.a. turning back economic growth), they'd get a lot further in their goal of combating global warming.

[belfpala]

If people would spend a lot more time talking about methods of pulling greenhouse gasses out of the atmosphere, and a lot less time talking about reducing emissions (a.k.a. turning back economic growth), they'd get a lot further in their goal of combating global warming.

People do talk about ways to sequester CO2. In a variety of ways. One of the more extreme proposals out there, just as a random example, is dumping iron into the oceans.

If you don't know people talk about it, you're probably getting your information from standard news. And journalists are, across the board, terrible at reporting on science.

[Endus]

If people would spend a lot more time talking about methods of pulling greenhouse gasses out of the atmosphere, and a lot less time talking about reducing emissions (a.k.a. turning back economic growth), they'd get a lot further in their goal of combating global warming.

While I keep encouraging this kind of a shift in focus myself, the technical challenges are not simple. Reducing emissions is orders of magnitude easier, even considering the difficulty in getting China on board.

It would be easier and cheaper, for instance, to give China/India easier access to nuclear power and electric vehicles (sold at below-cost, to make them a more competitive option than internal combustion engines), but people freak out about both of those, because they cost a lot of money. More than emissions reduction would cost, significantly.

[Khraine]

Let the sea level rise happen, it won't affect me and we'll just drive the migrants away.

[Deleted]

Let the sea level rise happen, it won't affect me and we'll just drive the migrants away.

You're right. You'll be dead before the effects of this become apparent enough for you to notice, and since you have no children, nor will you ever have children, nor do you have (nor will you ever have) any nieces or nephews you give a shit about, you've got absolutely nothing to worry about.