WoD Beta Demonology Discussion

[Soulzar]

Well, considering the 20% nerf is what introduced the bug, it would be logical for it to be fixed after, rather than before.

[Santoisms]

Well, considering the 20% nerf is what introduced the bug, it would be logical for it to be fixed after, rather than before.

I've been playing Aff / Destro as well as on Beta other than a fight or two. Demo DPS just doesn't compete, especially with how OP WW's are atm.

[Jessicka]

I've been playing Aff / Destro as well as on Beta other than a fight or two. Demo DPS just doesn't compete, especially with how OP WW's are atm.

Depends what you mean by compete. And you really shouldn't be comparing to those at the top of the pile at this (or any) point; just a couple of weeks ago, that is afterall where Demo was.

[Locknrollen]

Depends what you mean by compete.

The normal assumption is that he's saying that it isn't as good as our other speccs.

And you really shouldn't be comparing to those at the top of the pile at this (or any) point; just a couple of weeks ago, that is afterall where Demo was.

Why wouldnt you compare your damage to WWs/other top specc. or any other specc and class

[Santoisms]

The normal assumption is that he's saying that it isn't as good as our other speccs.




Why wouldnt you compare your damage to WWs/other top specc. or any other specc and class

Finally someone who doesn't post fluff on forums. Hats to you.

[Jessicka]

The normal assumption is that he's saying that it isn't as good as our other speccs.

It would, then he goes on to compare to a clearly overpowered spec instead; while still acknowledging perhaps that 'on a couple of fights' it still competes even there - as is the implication that Destro and Affliction would to?

Also, a lot of the time, players will refer to 'compete' as meaning 'comfortably able to top', as oppose to 'not falling behind the pack'. In the former version, then only 1 or 2 specs will ever 'compete'; the latter would be better descriptor as being competitive.

Why wouldnt you compare your damage to WWs/other top specc. or any other specc and class

Because the deltas between top and bottom right now on Beta are far bigger than they've been on live for years; more generally, once content goes live, if not within a couple of weeks of going live, those deltas are significantly reduced.

[evertonbelmontt]

Finally someone who doesn't post fluff on forums. Hats to you.

You'll get used to it. A lot of white knights here think that the class is perfect, and no matter what the developers do, they go with it.
Sometimes I get the urge to create a topic for warlocks:
"What would you change if you were a developer with full autority on warlock class design?"
Just to see a couple of them saying: "Nothing, it's perfect."

[Santoisms]

You'll get used to it. A lot of white knights here think that the class is perfect, and no matter what the developers do, they go with it.
Sometimes I get the urge to create a topic for warlocks:
"What would you change if you were a developer with full autority on warlock class design?"
Just to see a couple of them saying: "Nothing, it's perfect."

More annoying when the players who really aren't that good speak like they are / know how to play and are forum sharks. We're here to post feedback / data to get better.

[Jessicka]

You'll get used to it. A lot of white knights here think that the class is perfect, and no matter what the developers do, they go with it.
Sometimes I get the urge to create a topic for warlocks:
"What would you change if you were a developer with full autority on warlock class design?"
Just to see a couple of them saying: "Nothing, it's perfect."

Wow. I'm being accused of White Knighting, I think that has to be first.

Really, this forum has changed a lot in the past few weeks. We knew Demo was hugely overpowered after they basically doubled most of the spell coefficients, I don't believe anyone didn't expect to get nerfed, on Beta, where you never had such power in a competitive environment, and never therefore miss it. Suddenly, they apply a nerf - maybe or maybe not a little heavy handed, I'm not entirely sure it is, because all of the comparisons I've seen where it's struggling were a) hurt more by the Soul Fire bug, and b) when it's pitted against other, clearly aberrant and widely accepted to be overpowered specs.

They're not reasonable comparisons to make. And all too often, the notion itself of being competitive is comically warped.

Then for so many to imply that this standing mid-table within an unbalanced field, while bugged, is somehow the result of malicious intent, and a sign we'll be bottom of the pack in all three specs as a result is utterly fucking ludicrous. Yet, so many folks here seem to give that idea a time of day it really doesn't deserve. We've gone from a lot of constructive, fruitful discussion, to an echo chamber of self pity. How?

And again, on the White Knighting? I think I've attacked the indefensible state of the 90 and 100 talents enough, for all specs, to know that's just a ridiculous idea.

- - - Updated - - -

More annoying when the players who really aren't that good speak like they are / know how to play and are forum sharks. We're here to post feedback / data to get better.

Then post clear feedback? I'm still none the wiser as to where you'd peg "competitive" and whether your comparisons where Demo was "competitive" was with WW or with the other specs, or what?

[evertonbelmontt]

@Jessicka

Read PM.

[Tinsoul]

Why wouldnt you compare your damage to WWs/other top specc. or any other specc and class

The top spec is often an outlier.

You can't draw any useful conclusions when you use an outlier as your reference point. Should compare to the mean or median spec.

[Deleted]

More annoying when the players who really aren't that good speak like they are / know how to play and are forum sharks. We're here to post feedback / data to get better.

Oh the irony.

Also, Jessika's point about not comparing to the top spec is valid in light of Blizzard's philosophy, that of comparing yourself to the middle of the pack.

Not saying they're right, but your attack on Jessicka here is a bit unwarranted.

[Deleted]

Yesterday i was Higmaul Normal and what can i say?
MM-Hunter have incredible singletarget dmg, frostmages are up again and warlocks?
Who still believes that Warlock will get a buff until the release?

Without a buff I see no reason that a Warlock gets a raidspot.
Hunter and Mages have more mobility and make more dmg.

[Hellfury]

another one with same report after doing normal Highmaul with all my mythic core raid. Demo its not even decent.

And yes I compare with others and affliction.

[Deleted]

another one with same report after doing normal Highmaul with all my mythic core raid. Demo its not even decent.

And yes I compare with others and affliction.

You can see it clearly with chimerashot - 180k crit against 4 Stacks Demonbolt - 140k!

[Kokeless]

You knew demo was overpowered.

You KNEW.
Why compare its present state to that of the new, most overpowered class?

Do you want to just sit in the buff/nerf cycle going from OP to UP every patch?


I'd rather it be right in the middle (heh, upper middle, if it doesnt matter) where I don't have to worry about being buffed only to be nerfed. The specs at the top of the boards do exactly what your doing now. You claim everything was fine, then when you get nerfed you cry because whatever blizzard buffed to take your spot has your shiny new toy.

Now if we could get Hellfire on the pet WoD has permission to release

[Deleted]

You knew demo was overpowered.

You KNEW.
Why compare its present state to that of the new, most overpowered class?

Do you want to just sit in the buff/nerf cycle going from OP to UP every patch?


I'd rather it be right in the middle (heh, upper middle, if it doesnt matter) where I don't have to worry about being buffed only to be nerfed. The specs at the top of the boards do exactly what your doing now. You claim everything was fine, then when you get nerfed you cry because whatever blizzard buffed to take your spot has your shiny new toy.

Now if we could get Hellfire on the pet WoD has permission to release

there is a difference between being viable and not being viable, atm demo is a load of crap and and for a class that can only dps, they need to be top-ish with the other "dps classes". and fyi, not every1 said demo was fine pre-nerf, the majority knew and said it was op.

[Zevoa]

Oh the irony.

LOL my sides.

[xskarma]

Just a general warning, there has been WAY too much personal attacks lately, especially when it comes to Demo threads, and that needs to stop. There's never a reason to make things personal, attack people's arguments and data, not their person or status.

[Aschark]

After significant testing in Highmaul, it's pretty apparent Demo isn't viable in a Mythic scenario at the moment.

The effort to return isn't there. Life tapping to meet critical fury regen requirements puts massive strain on healers. Shadowbolt in the world of today is archaic. ToC is completely useless. Our opener is clunky, at absolute best, and together with Demonbolt are ferociously esoteric to new players.

Affliction is easier, more mobile and just flat out stronger. Destro is flat stronger, with about the same mobi as Demo. Demo is basically rooted in place to meet burst windows at the moment. I'm not even going to go into the fact that we're getting trashed by other classes and rely heavily on set bonuses to fund our insane level 100 talents for Aff and demo.

I'm no slouch, with former r1s and plenty of top ten parses at different points. But Demo as it stands is dead in the water, and warlock isn't far behind. I'm no huge pessimist naysayer, but we're getting close to release and warlock is both weak and unfun.