WoD Beta Demonology Discussion

[Nighthaven-]

Don't you worry, I bet they will fix that by giving trinkets 1m30s/2m30s cooldowns.

Active trinkets with unfavorable timers are more preferred than passive trinkets that procs right before downtime, even if cases where you may have to delay their usage.
Especially for Demonology as you generally always want a power boost timed with your HoG/CW as those are your most significant abilities. Specs like Affliction doesn't really suffer from 'timing.'
+ That particular case is solvable by Archimondes Darkness.

But overall there will be a wide selection of trinkets both passive and active instead of only/mostly passive ones as seen in MoP (the significant ones).

[Alarinth]

Don't you worry, I bet they will fix that by giving trinkets 1m30s/2m30s cooldowns.

Hah! You optimist! I'm expecting at least 3 / 5 minute cooldowns!

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

I still dont like that you need so many things to aoe with demo. (A little unrelated but why did they nerf hellfire in 5.4?)

[Skayth]

Passive talents should never ever beat active ones. The idea of needing burst for a phase went pretty much obsolete with Spine, it basically only comes up as a strategy now when people start to overgear a fight and want to ignore a hard part that should be otherwise doable.

For me, I think it should be in line with the other talents, if not the same. While active ones are yes, "omg i have another button to push" there shouldnt be a drastic difference IN THE LONG RUN between that and something like demonbolt. Burst should be burst, but have a negative side effect (but what am I talking about... since that never happens to any other class) when competing in lets say a 8-10 min fight. Something like spine? yes, burst should win. But in the long run, I think passive should come out at the exact same. If you take away the competitive ability, then why ever take anything but demonbolt for single target and cataclysm for 2+. Its like Mannoroths Fury all over again, archimonde vengence in the beginning of the expansion... The other 2 specs take kjc now, but they never took it when it was garbage. Why bother having any choice if they all do not do roughly the same dps?

[Jessicka]

Burst cooldowns have the downside of using them at the wrong time, but an upside of potentially getting more out of them if there's fight mechanics/procs to exploit. Passives don't have the plus, but they don't have the downside either. If ultimately adding the extra button to your rotation and using it 'normally' isn't going to gain you anything, yet has this risk to it, why even bother? Right now Service is tuned almost exactly in line with Supremacy, but people aren't using it for exactly this reason. Just take a look at the stats over at worldofwargraphs, Supremacy is still very popular for Demonology, even though it falls marginally behind Service; whereas for Affliction/Destruction where Service is very marginally behind, it simply doesn't get used.

The idea neither Sup or Sac would get used if Service was marginally better is simply not true as borne out by those stats. An active talent has to have an edge to make it worth considering.

[evertonbelmontt]

If they were both equal in the long run, by default they would have both advantages.

DB would be the "on demand" burst needed to kill adds (enginers, tower guard, etc) at the cost of one button, and DServ would be your sustained dps.
The idea behind most active talents is that you have more control over it, as to when you use it, how do you use it (Demonic Pact) and it's slightly better because it rewards effort.

But all in all, DServ should be 5% less eficient than DB, IMO.

[Jessicka]

If they were both equal in the long run, by default they would have both advantages.

A lot of people considering not having a disadvantage to be a huge advantage. That's why they play Destruction

[gildelicil]

I still dont like that you need so many things to aoe with demo. (A little unrelated but why did they nerf hellfire in 5.4?)

The change coincided with the change to Mannoroth's Fury becoming a cooldown that buffed damage as well as spell cast area.

[Zevoa]

Anything passive should be worse.

[Deleted]

Demonology Changes
We also tweaked the design of Master Demonologist, in order to solve some edge cases, and simplify and clarify its effects.

Mastery: Master Demonologist has been slightly changed. It now passively increases all damage by 6% regardless of form. While in Metamorphosis, it further increases the damage of Touch of Chaos, Chaos Wave, Doom, Immolation Aura, and Soul Fire while by 12%.


WTF NERF?
What is with the 6% dmg of our pets?

[PickleballAce]

Yay I can dig out the /cast Dark Soul /use 14 Macro!

Don't you worry, I bet they will fix that by giving trinkets 1m30s/2m30s cooldowns.

Yep.

I don't particularly hate on-use trinkets but suddenly putting an emphasis on them after "ability pruning" is a questionable move. Why cut things from our bars to prevent clutter, then ask us to throw shit back on our bars?

Something something right hand, something something left hand....

[Filabane]

Mastery: Master Demonologist has been slightly changed. It now passively increases all damage by 6% regardless of form. While in Metamorphosis, it further increases the damage of Touch of Chaos, Chaos Wave, Doom, Immolation Aura, and Soul Fire while by 12%.


WTF NERF?
What is with the 6% dmg of our pets?

Poor wording for tooltip. The "passively increases" works on pets too
https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...63376901255168

[Deleted]

And what is the different? Only tooltip fix? 6% and 12% is on the live Beta too?

[gahddo]

And what is the different? Only tooltip fix? 6% and 12% is on the live Beta too?

That was an update to the official notes reflecting changes that have already long since been on beta.

Mastery is now 6% damage to you/pet permanently.

It also multiplies by ANOTHER 12% for the abilities listed on the tooltip if you are in meta.

ToC does 1000 damage.

1000 * 1.06 * 1.12 = 1187.2 damage

[Nighthaven-]

It was a scaling fix by non-linear abilities such as Cataclysm, Demon-bolt etc. so you still scale from them (to a lesser degree)
+ Demo DS will actually work for them.


if ellse Demo scaling would have been sub-Destruction levels.

[DesireKT]

@Celestalon Does the scaled dot tick at the end of Doom only scale SP or does it scale other stats like Crit down as well?
@Celestalon I ask cuz Doom gets more ticks per cast if you let it expire before refreshing meaning more chances to spawn Imps. Intended?

@DesirKT Currently it does not. We'll give it a reduced proc rate as well if that becomes a common thing.

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...99272585359360

[Filabane]

@Celestalon Does the scaled dot tick at the end of Doom only scale SP or does it scale other stats like Crit down as well?
@Celestalon I ask cuz Doom gets more ticks per cast if you let it expire before refreshing meaning more chances to spawn Imps. Intended?

@DesirKT Currently it does not. We'll give it a reduced proc rate as well if that becomes a common thing.

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...99272585359360

I can't say why exactly, but that response almost feels like a threat.

[evertonbelmontt]

Blizzard wouldn't do this, it's the wrong move, he's just trying to threat as it seems.

Blizzard policy is to make the game acessible to everyone. Doom is almost like a passive source of damage, you just put it there if there's one target or cataclysm if there's more. Nerfing base crit chance of doom wouldn't hurt any hardcore raiders (the ones abusing this) but would have an impact on the casual player.


EDIT: nevermind, forget logic. Thinking better, this "new" Blizzard doesn't seem to care about this anymore, or warlocks QoL issues.

[DesireKT]

The "threat" is to nerf the chance to proc on the last tick not the entire spell.

[Orloth]

The issue is more that if the partial tick spawns imps, it does weird things to our Haste scaling. Having it on their radar is a good thing, whether or not they do anything about it.