Latest [Druid] Ability Pruning Changes!

[Aseyhe]

Warlords bear form is just 5-10% stronger than Mists bear form (in terms of health relative to cat form). Not close to the 25% or 30% effective health increases from barkskin or might of ursoc respectively.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's a summary of effective health modifiers available to ferals.

Mists of Pandaria

• bear form: +25-33%
• might of ursoc: +30% (+50% glyphed)
• barkskin: +25%
• survival instincts: +100%
• dispersion: +900%
• divine shield: inf (exclusive with dispersion)
• heart of the wild passive: +4-5%

Warlords of Draenor

• bear form: +40%
• survival instincts: +233%
• nine lives glyph: +11% (exclusive with bear form)

In terms of ability to soak a single large hit, survival instincts/bear form in Warlords of Draenor (467% effective health) is comparable to survival instincts/barkskin/bear form/might of ursoc/heart of the wild passive now (~454% effective health) -- meaning that in this regard, we effectively have no compensation at all for losing symbiosis.

Again, that's just speaking of the ability to soak a single large hit. Survival instincts in Warlords does have the advantage of greater availability and convenience, and upcoming encounter design will tell whether the exchange was worth it. If we get another Static Shock, then there will be a lot of feral and balance druids dropped in favor of rogues, windwalkers, ret paladins, warlocks, mages, hunters, and shadow priests.

[timmytompadderham]

nine lives glyph: +11% (exclusive with bear form)

I'd be very surprised/disgruntled if that glyph stayed. It's a "required" glyph for all aspects of the game and passive DR was pretty much removed for everyone except hunters through a talent and their mitigation was weak anyway. Ferals should have a lot better healing in WoD anyway, at least more convenient that is. There's no way that should be a glyph unless you give up SI like warlocks sacrifice shield wall for 10% DR.

[Aseyhe]

It's exclusive with glyph of cat form (+20% healing taken), and because of that, I'm not really expecting it to go away. I'd likely favor glyph of cat form anyway for most fights, since if I'm in a position where I need the extra effective health, I'm probably in bear form.

[gestapo]

I'm just not sold on the value of barkskin from a gameplay perspective. Obviously it is a useful ability, but that doesn't mean it's engaging or exciting to use. Barkskin is immensely reactionary. Oh, I'm stunned? let's press the only button I have I can press. It's not like bubble, which has a long cooldown, which makes the choice to use it rather important.

In WoD you have to predict the damage you're going to take. Use SI or swap to bear or throw a rejuv on yourself or whatever you gotta do. These are more interesting gameplay options than barkskin.

Assuming SI will ever be usable while stunned outside of AT BEST a glyph which drops its reduction to 50% is delusional.

I like that we get to use bear form as a predictive DR ability, but barkskin also reduced crit chance as well as preventing cast time interruption. I agree that reactionary abilities make for less compelling gameplay, but unless all other classes have their barkskin-like abilities changed it's not going to work. For e.g. things like shaman tremor are excellent candidates - they make fear almost trivial vs shaman teams and are much bigger contenders for removing reactionary abilities than barkskin ever was.

We need skin back or SI usable while being crowd controlled if other classes don't have their reactionary defensive abilities changed to predictive.

[hullaballoonatic]

In terms of ability to soak a single large hit, survival instincts/bear form in Warlords of Draenor (467% effective health) is comparable to survival instincts/barkskin/bear form/might of ursoc/heart of the wild passive now (~454% effective health) -- meaning that in this regard, we effectively have no compensation at all for losing symbiosis.

The second charge of SI, perhaps?

Maybe it's time to give renewal that might of ursoc treatment!

We need skin back or SI usable while being crowd controlled if other classes don't have their reactionary defensive abilities changed to predictive.

I don't think that's necessary. Classes can be different.

[morislayer]

I'm not actually into PvP but I must admit it doesn't make a lot of sense to me...
Here's a quick list of WOD survival abilities that can be cast when stunned (there may be a few errors, feel free to correct them) :

Dk - icebound fortitude
Mage - cold snap (talent)
Monk - Dampen Harm or Healing Elixir (talent) / Nimble brew
Priest - Angelic Bulwark (talent)
Rogue - Cheat Death (talent) - cloak of shadows
Shaman - Nature's Guardian (talent)
War - Enraged Regeneration (talent)

Unending resolve
Dispersion
Bubble
Ice Block....etc,

Only hunters & now druids have no way to deal with stunlocks. But the hunter has a pet to roar of sacrifice. So ya, all classes have (had) a usable button while stunned

[Puck]

The game is going to be so different in WoD that we can't use how things are now to judge how they will be in the future. Yes, Druids re getting a lot removed, but so is every other class. And guess what? They're all complaining about the same thing you guys are.

[Deleted]

So there is a lot of talk about SI etc.

Has anyone got any opinions on play-style? I have been playing on beta and it just seems quite slow. It may just be that I am used to mangle spam when killing mobs, can't get quite as many shreds in the same window. Also I think my CC procs are a little lower than on live. Not have Pounce/Ravage feels very weird.

I was also surprised how hard melee hits. A single white hit isn't much less than a shred hit. Looks like melee will make up a much higher portion of our overall damage again.

Bear form and caster form seem kind of sad, not got anything to put on the bars :-( Bear form has Mangle and Thrash, that's it.

[Deleted]

Unending resolve
Dispersion
Bubble
Ice Block....etc,

Only hunters & now druids have no way to deal with stunlocks. But the hunter has a pet to roar of sacrifice. So ya, all classes have (had) a usable button while stunned

You cannot compare those abilities.
Druids deff cooldown might not be useable while stunned, but it is extremely powerful, two charges with no lockout like hypothermia and a 70% damage reuction, 70% is huge!

[hullaballoonatic]

Bear form and caster form seem kind of sad, not got anything to put on the bars :-( Bear form has Mangle and Thrash, that's it.

And Faerie Fire and Frenzied Regen

Caster form has entangling roots, moonfire, wrath, healing touch, cyclone, soothe, hurricane, and rejuvenation. all these abilities seem plenty well rounded to cover all the bases.

[Aseyhe]

The second charge of SI, perhaps?

Yeah, see my last paragraph. Feral lost effectiveness in soaking a single large hit in exchange for greater versatility in cooldown usage. It remains to be seen whether this exchange was worth it.

At least we aren't in the position of balance and restoration. With the latest build, they've now lost symbiosis and might of ursoc in exchange for naught but a faster barkskin cooldown.

[snuzzle]

Yesterday's changes are a welcome relief. We got back Entangling roots, Hurricane, Moonfire and Rejuv to all specs!

Barkskin is now available to Balance, Guardian, and Restoration Druids, and no longer provides pushback protection, but its base cooldown has been reduced to 30 seconds.
Entangling roots, Hurricane, Moonfire and Rejuv are no longer spec-specific
Revive’s mana cost has been reduced by 87%.
Incarnation: Chosen of Elune now increases spell damage by 15% while active (was a 25% increase to Arcane and Nature damage, but only while Eclipse is active).
Previous changes to Euphoria and Insect Swarm/Stellar Flare have been reverted. See the Druid section for more detail
Bear Hug has been removed.
Hibernate has been removed.
Nature’s Grasp has been removed.
Maim is now available only to Feral Druids.

My cat and caster bar still look very sad, but definitely less sad now than before. Now, I just want a few more cat form abilities back, like Rip and maybe one more. It's not very much fun just spamming Shred over and over when in kitty.

[hullaballoonatic]

I just want a few more cat form abilities back, like Rip

i will laugh like a maniac the day blizzard cuts cat form's signature ability.

[Gemini Soul]

Whats the point of giving barkskin back to Balance/resto but not feral ESPECIALLY since they removed the push back protection

[Callsignecho]

Whats the point of giving barkskin back to Balance/resto but not feral ESPECIALLY since they removed the push back protection

Because Feral didn't complain hard enough.

[Aseyhe]

Whats the point of giving barkskin back to Balance/resto but not feral ESPECIALLY since they removed the push back protection

They took away survival instincts from balance/resto but not feral.

[ShmooDude]

They took away survival instincts from balance/resto but not feral.

This, its basically a nerf, not a buff (imo anyhow). They lost 2 charges of 70% dr for 20% dr that can be used while stunned. To me the former is way more useful...

[Juvencus]

This, its basically a nerf, not a buff (imo anyhow). They lost 2 charges of 70% dr for 20% dr that can be used while stunned. To me the former is way more useful...

It's also 30sec cd and 12sec duration. That's 40% of the fight under 20% DR

[Zstr]

If encounters are won't be design for soaking shit like current, ferals fine, anyway I don't see me losing a raid spot due to that coz 10 man shit is no more, and there will be room to bring cats as pure damage bot, so I'm satisfy with current 2x SI instead barskin+SI - survival models in raids it doesn't change much,
I'm losing emergency heal as Might of Ursol, but with current Rejuvination and Healing Touch selfheals it's not needed, plus to that side t6 talents are making selfhealing more powerfull and be able to heal others( `cat-healer` helping ̶r̶a̶i̶d̶ some raiders,to save their ass)
pretty much symbiosis is lost for everyone, even for others classes, but this one removed as complain from pvp side, however yes it bring some weakness on that side,
but as it target both I hope developers will bare in mind,as they mention it, that people being bring into raid for their playing not coz they bring some sort of utility.

Looking from PvP side in terms surviving, ferals was pretty powerfull in that way for current expansion, thanks all mentioned abilities.
yes it's good to be better then others, but it was way too much, and I've feel myself that way, when I was swithcing to play others classes in pvp they were very squished compare to feral. So it have to go. Right now as other classes have losed also alot, I won't be complain to lose of barskin as survival cd, because I have enough to counter opponent and save my ass with different kind of cc roots,stuns,knockback, double SI, Bearform, Insane self healing, mobility&speed, root breaking etc

Things are pretty much on very middle of development way, and tunning is on the way, still big way to go for release, I hope they won't mess it further, coz we pretty much dunno what in their head, and what they throw into beta builds are kind of toys into sandbox for kids to try out and then see their reaction, and thats good that they listen, after some crying some abilities we got back, so lets pray there won't be many or way less buttons to play with, druid will be still druid with same ol' good rotations

[hullaballoonatic]

I'm losing emergency heal as Might of Ursol, but with current Rejuvination and Healing Touch selfheals it's not needed

Not to mention the possibility of picking up Renewal, which was immensely devalued in MoP due to the existence of Might of Ursoc.