Trials of Ascension, Shady Practices and the Big Crowdfunding Debate

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Whoa

Goblin Works is selling power for a game that has yet to be even released; their plan is to have players who pay into the alpha and stay subbed will not have their toons wiped and have an XP advantage over all other players.

Full explanation:

"Pathfinder Online recently began its early enrollment period, during which the game is -- by the devs' own admission -- three years away from a full launch, but it will not be wiped as players can start their journeys now. Oh, and in addition to an up-front fee to get in, there's also a monthly subscription. For alpha. This continues to blow my mind.

The stinger on this particular example is that the studio outright said in its early enrollment announcement letter that players who don't jump on board the early access train will be forever behind the curve..."

This is... whaaa???

It's sickening.

So this is what early access has become.

[Deleted]

Haha that's a big amount of bs.

I don't even know where to begin.

I have played every expansion in wow since classid (Exception is WoD) but I have never staid subbed for 3 years straight. I have always taken a few months breaks. How can someone stay subbed for 3 years straight? Let alone a game in alpha. Do these alphas and betas even have a true meaning anymore?

What a bunch of lunatics.

Thanks for the links too. The second one was very interesting, that guy was spot on.

I've only bought the early access to War for the Overworld (Dungeon Keeper clone, I love DK) and it's still being worked on today. In general I seriously don't like early accesses or Kickstarter campaigns. It's just too easy to scam. Paying subs in a shitty looking alpha (Pathfinder) or buying crap from an in-game store before the first code of the game was written (ToA) are both good examples of crap I do not support at all.

The ToA shop was for me the number 1 reason to come to this thread. Now it's just a fun and humiliating ride.

[Edge-]

Whoa

Goblin Works is selling power for a game that has yet to be even released; their plan is to have players who pay into the alpha and stay subbed will not have their toons wiped and have an XP advantage over all other players.

Full explanation:



This is... whaaa???

It's sickening.

So this is what early access has become.

From chatting with the studio lead, it's not really "power". It's more akin to the skill progression in EVE and isn't purely linear. Not only is there diminishing returns in terms of player power gains (the example was that you hit the "soft" cap at 6 months, so that the difference between a new and 6 month old player is big, but between a 6 month and 1 year old player isn't significant), but that the progression will be more geared towards diversity. The studio lead dudes example was that 6 months in you can be an expert with a sword and maybe a bow, whereas a 3 year old player will be an expert with a sword, bow, staff, mace, axe and another weapon or two. It won't make them better than you with a sword/bow, they'll just have more options.

I agree there's a lot of room to fuck up with such a system, but it can work if done right.

Though totally agree on paying a dub for the alpha of a game that's at least 3 years out still. That's on top of the $100 entry-fee to the alpha, and it's bloody bonkers.

[Xargoth6634]

Disagreed so strongly. I've wished I could do this for so long, especially when I was tanking on my pali in WoW. Seriously, there's so many awesome thematic things you could do in terms of offensive/defensive abilities.

I dunno, it seems stupid and gimmicky, and ridiculously impractical. There's a reason it never caught on in actual historical warfare. =)

[Edge-]

I dunno, it seems stupid and gimmicky, and ridiculously impractical. There's a reason it never caught on in actual historical warfare. =)

It's almost as if it's in a fantasy setting where all kinds of stupid, gimmicky, ridiculously impractical stuff that would never have caught on in actual historical warfare (or existed at all) is commonplace : P

[Azrile]

Sweet baby Jesus these guys are just so slooooow. You see these updates, and it is like most of that stuff is just a day of work.

It has taken Brax months to sculpt an island? Do we need to show them where a guy created in Unity a huge island with a city in 4 hours? yes yes.. Brax was very meticulous when he combed over that beach with a not-so-fine tooth comb.

No idea what happened with Pathfinder. I have no connections or contacts with them so can´t get any inside information, but that sounds bad also. they finished their KS a long time ago and just now talking about this open paid alpha? I think they are similar to ToA in that the devs don´t know enough about making games to have a grasp on how long or difficult some things are, and how easy other things are. You can´t outsource major parts of your game if you don´t know how to do that work yourself.

I will disagree with Edge a bit, I don´t like that type of system in EVE either. For gameplay, it doesn´t matter very much, but for getting new players it is had to sell them on the fact that they will never, and can never catch up to other players. WOW has probably gone a bit too far in the other directions, but for me at least, one of the reasons I could never get into EVE on a serious basis was knowing that no matter how much I played, I could never catch up to the 200k players who started before me.

- - - Updated - - -

It's almost as if it's in a fantasy setting where all kinds of stupid, gimmicky, ridiculously impractical stuff that would never have caught on in actual historical warfare (or existed at all) is commonplace : P

yeah, probably around 80% of weapons we use in fantasy games were barely used in the real world, and certainly not in the context that we use them in games. Good luck taking that polearm into a cave...

- - - Updated - - -

[Edge-]

they finished their KS a long time ago and just now talking about this open paid alpha?

It's been 2 years since they were funded, you can't really build a brand new MMO from scratch in a short period of time. MMO's take a lot of time to make, yo. They've been posting updates of their progress, though. So even if they're leaning very heavily on monetizing the hell out of people super early, at least there's actual progress being made and shown off.

For gameplay, it doesn´t matter very much, but for getting new players it is had to sell them on the fact that they will never, and can never catch up to other players.

Hence why I said there's a whole lot of room to fuck it up. It can work provided there's enough horizontal progression and the curve of power gain is small enough to be relatively insignificant and more customizable side-grades rather than power upgrades.

WOW has probably gone a bit too far in the other directions, but for me at least, one of the reasons I could never get into EVE on a serious basis was knowing that no matter how much I played, I could never catch up to the 200k players who started before me.[/QUOTE]

[Xargoth6634]

It's almost as if it's in a fantasy setting where all kinds of stupid, gimmicky, ridiculously impractical stuff that would never have caught on in actual historical warfare (or existed at all) is commonplace : P

Yeah yeah, fair enough. =) I'm just trying to picture a plate wearer with two shields using them effectively in combat, even in a fantasy setting. Maybe I'm just not very creative!

As for that other paying for alpha access with a monthly sub, I think that's ridiculous. Paying for early access as a one time thing, sure, or as a kickstarter perk, I dunno. But I see charging a monthly sub for alpha as double dipping. You're basically getting people to pay you, while also having them do your testing for you. To me, that's the equivalent of Hulu Plus, which charges you a monthly sub while also making you sit through commercials that they receive revenue for. Hey, if people are interested enough to shell out for it, sure, but I won't be lining up for it.

As far as the general topic of kickstarters, I don't contribute to them myself. I don't think the majority are scams, but there's just too much that COULD go wrong, and it's not worth the risk to me. I'll wait for finished products.

[Fallen Angel]

You could do double shields in Dark Souls. It was just a silly thing that was fun to derp around with.

[Post]

Yeah yeah, fair enough. =) I'm just trying to picture a plate wearer with two shields using them effectively in combat, even in a fantasy setting. Maybe I'm just not very creative!

http://darksouls.wikia.com/wiki/Impe...ht_Concept.png

There is a 0% chance they're capable of making anything even remotely almost a little bit close to as cool as anything in Dark Souls but still.

[mickybrighteyes]

Yeah yeah, fair enough. =) I'm just trying to picture a plate wearer with two shields using them effectively in combat, even in a fantasy setting. Maybe I'm just not very creative!
.

IMO it depends on teh design. you can have as many varieties of shields as you can blades and I could so see some silly uber hero doing spinning strikes to shatter some fool with the edge of their shields or going rollie pollie into some sort of take downs.....

RAMMUS imagine the lightning as shields and just look at how Rammus fights.

[Fallen Angel]

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-qeSiK5Lo08/maxresdefault.jpg

ToA is totally original and unique

[Deleted]

none of their ideas are original.

dual wield shield already been done before....
perma-death already been done before....
playable dragons already been done before...

it's just stuff that doesn't really work in a MMO/MP game

Why you hating infidel? It will work in ToA, they have a huge fanbase. They know what their fans want.

[Nirawen]

You could do double shields in Dark Souls. It was just a silly thing that was fun to derp around with.

Any time I see double shields mentioned my first thought is always Sir Schmoopy from Unforgotten Realms.

[Deleted]

It's that time again guys. The roadmap has been updated.

Magic went from 20 or 30% to 100%, I kid you not. Can't wait to see 'the casting of a spell' in a video.
Spawning and Tech have both been bumped to 100%, I believe they were at 90%.

Kickstarter video went from 20% to 50%.

Not long now guys!

[Deleted]

Do people still actually donate to this shit? Let me tell you the backstory.

`Hey, since the internet is full of morons, lets pretend to make a game and rake in donations. As long as we got the legal stuff covered, we can scam those idiots for as long as we want`.

They put up kindergarten artwork, some fucking visual basic maps, and people donate.
U people deserve scammers like this.

[Kyanion]

Oh boy 50% on the Kickstarter video? I can't wait for 100%! It'll be like a 2nd Xmas!

[Edge-]

Oh boy 50% on the Kickstarter video? I can't wait for 100%! It'll be like a 2nd Xmas!

Spoiler alert: It will be released at Christmas : 3

[Deleted]

Spoiler alert: It will be released at Christmas : 3

Not at this pace! This is the first time in ToA history that a specific section (Magic!) gets bumped by so much. The devs have out-done themselves. Can you imagine? They made 70% progress, true dedication man! Thousands of man hours gets put into this technical demo.

In all seriousness, I honestly expect a Kickstarter announcement this month.

[Post]

I love how the combat, crafting, and world (the biggest, most important parts to show off) are listed as basic, demonstration, prototype etc. That way when people call it shit, they'll say "well it's just the basic version, the REAL version will be amazing!"