Karabor and Bladespire are no longer our Capital hubs.

[miffy23]

"There will be a fast travel option between the staging areas and your Garrison. You can pop over there quickly, conduct your business, and leave again if you like.
"

Told ya.

And LOL @ that justification and the names. They just don't get it anymore.

That's basically the most desperate attempt at pacification I've seen.

Talk about "copypaste" hubs - they literally copypasted the Alliance name "Stormshield" from their own franchise, Diablo (popular item in all 3 games). It doesn't get any sadder than that.

[CosmicGuitars]

You are an idiot

Nice argument you've brought to the table.

Fuck off.

Infracted: Please do not insult other users. Thanks [ML]

[Destruktion]

Would work just fine!

What's this from?

[Spraxle]

The thought has probably come up, but maybe Blizzard didn't think they could make the city in Frostfire 'match' Karabor on the level of epic/awesome?

Anyway this change seems dumb and pointless. I'm sure they'll come out and say something to the effect of, 'we are doing this so it feels more like you are on your own' or whatever. But really it makes a ton more sense for the player(s) and the NPCs to make friends with the locals and then use their cities. Yeah why use an already established built city when you can have some garbage 2 hut 'fort'? Sigh Blizzard sigh.

[Ilfayt]

I can't even properly put into words how much I dislike this... decision. All the useful stuff is located on Isle Copypasta, while the lore-rich and beautiful places are just something... to look at? WHY?

That's actually why I LOVE this decision. The lore-rich and beautiful places aren't sullied by 'Portals-AH-banks-raid' mentality and aren't just a place we all 'tunnelvision through to the other side' of our daily regiment. What matters now is how much 'still fully populated' means(why I'm waiting to see what Beta stuff is going to pop up in the next few days).

[Deleted]

This is rich, so Lore writes: "Warlords of Draenor’s story is about the people of Azeroth (namely, the Alliance and the Horde) venturing into an unknown world and building up a force strong enough to take out an enemy stronger than anything they’ve encountered before, on that enemy’s own turf. While there are certainly some alliances to be made along the way, and those are definitely major parts of the story, the core theme is about you and your faction fighting for survival.".

I'd say it's more practical to use ALREADY BUILT GIANT FORTRESS OF YOUR ALLY THAT KNOWs THE LAND AND SHIT, rather than using goblin's town-in-a-box to build your own wooden Fort Copypasta in the most irrelevant part of the continent.

[ringpriest]

"Explanation" blue post http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...7249?page=3#57

Inspired by Ragashii's comment.

[The Madgod]

Lore's post is up. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...7249?page=3#57

Dangit I was going to post that!

Well, that kinda make it slightly better, that there'll be a fast travel system between your Garrison and the capital. Still, if the only reason you're interested in going there is "business", it's not much of a city.

Warlords of Draenor’s story is about the people of Azeroth (namely, the Alliance and the Horde) venturing into an unknown world and building up a force strong enough to take out an enemy stronger than anything they’ve encountered before, on that enemy’s own turf. While there are certainly some alliances to be made along the way, and those are definitely major parts of the story, the core theme is about you and your faction fighting for survival.

So, as development continued, we came to the realization that it just doesn’t make sense for the Horde and Alliance to spend so much energy and resources building up a stronghold on Draenor, only to base their efforts out of someone else’s city. We’re not helping the Draenei or Frostwolves fight off the Iron Horde – they’re helping us. The Alliance and Horde both have major bases of operation on Draenor. That should be where they’re working from.

For this part in particular... I AGREE to an extent, but I disagree with it more so. WHY Ashran, of all places? If part of the theme of the expansion is "building up a force strong enough to take out an enemy stronger than anything they've encountered before" (sic) then why put our capitals in a place where the story is essentially "rawr Alliance Horde fighting"? Karabor and Bladespire, in my opinion, accentuate this aspect of the story in a much better way, if only because of their locations.

At least to me, if you put the focus of having Karabor and Bladespite be "Hey, you guys helped us out a lot. Our land is yours. Use it to help stop the Iron Horde." then there really isn't an issue. Them allowing us to be there and use their lands so we can allocate building resources somewhere else is them helping us, not us helping them. Furthermore, if we aren't supposed to help them then why have the Frostfire and Shadowmoon stories the way they are? Isn't that in a way "us helping them"... as in... we ARE helping them? Pretty actively? I think they're putting more work on themselves when it doesn't need to. And certainly to a negative effect in the community's eyes if the forums and twitter are any example.

[Flutterguy]

His own explanation contradicts what the bases are in lore. In the quest lines we're starved for resources. Your garrison is set up specifically as the base camp to gather resources and help our allies from. Khadgar talks about only being able to open his portals for brief amounts of time to let in some peasants and supplies.

Yet we build entire fucking bases out on an island in the middle of nowhere because...lore? If the Frostwolves and Draenei are truly helping us, then why are we so capable of just doing it on our own? Because the quest has us liberate their cities for them. The quests have us shoring up their defenses and they're truly the key to helping us because we're kinda stuck here, then it makes all the sense in the world that we would share their city with them.

[Handsome]

I thought we were helping them defend karabor from the iron horde and bladespire from the ogres, and in return, we would be offered their city as a home for us.

[Daws]

So read the explanation - utter rubbish. What it should really say is "we're taking away the original idea for faction cities and instead we're going to try and ram pvp down you throats, yes you don't have to do it but we're going to make sure you are as damn near as possible to it".

Also love the section "venturing into an unknown world". Really unknown world, pretty sure the orcs and draneai know a thing or two about it and then there's the humans/elves/dwarves/gnomes who went there before it became outland and after it became outland just about everybody went there. So really not that unknown although points for using a word other than savage to describe it.

[deadman1]

"We’re not helping the Draenei or Frostwolves fight off the Iron Horde – they’re helping us" - WHY CAN'T THEY HELP US BY ALLOWING US TO USE THEIR CITIES?

Haha, that's exactly what I posted on the other forums, no reply though.

I don't see Lore's post as an actual explanation, just a quick bandage on the wound while they form an actual explanation.

[Keristrasza]

Figures, Blizzard always attempts to force PVP even though they say they don't. I'm surprised they haven't just shoved all capital cities into the heart of the PVP zone itself to ensure world PVP happens.

[Jester Joe]

Proves that they want things to be just how they want, even if the subscribers hate it. We had that last time, with our favorite green man, and it lead to the biggest subscriber drop since WoW launched. So.. we'll see how it works out for them this time, no?

I don't know about you, but if my favorite green man was in WoW, I'd stay forever. Good ol' Shrek. (I get what you mean though!)

But yeah, hopefully they'll realize the errors of their way...

[Netherspark]

I don't think they actually understand why players are annoyed... they seem to think we just want Alliance and Horde (Human & Orc) 24/7. They don't understand why we actually liked the Temple of Karabor and Bladespire Fortress, and they don't understand our objections to moving the cities.

Sure you can go to Karabor, but for what? Lots of places in Wow are pretty, but you don't spend time there because they don't do anything...

[darkwarrior42]

Well, here I was thinking that Blizzard couldn't make it any more obvious that Humans and Orcs are the only things that matter to them. Why pretend the natives of this world matter at all? (I won't even touch the social context of their statements about our battle on their world not being about them at all...)

[Razorice]

I really have no preference where to sit and wait for Q or my raid to start.

[Yarathir]

I don't know about you, but if my favorite green man was in WoW, I'd stay forever. Good ol' Shrek. (I get what you mean though!)

But yeah, hopefully they'll realize the errors of their way...

It was a sarcastic 'favorite'. And after this post, I'm not so sure anymore. Doesn't mean I'll just give up, though.

[Constraint]

This part was actually the best, and by best I mean best at being awful. Spectacularly horrible.

My thoughts exactly. How that imbecile ever thought that this was a logical, reasonable explanation is so far beyond me that it isn't funny.

So, since we weren't helping the Kirin Tor, they were helping us (I didn't notice them killing the Lich King, or Algalon, or Anub'arak, or Kel'Thuzad) we shouldn't have had access to Dalaran - we should have had some random outposts on the outskirt of Wintergrasp? That's literally what they're doing here. Taking us out of an AMAZING location we've been expecting and looking forward to with great anticipation for no reason whatsoever.

Hey, we probably should never have lived in Shattrath either - those random Lower City refugees/Ethereals and Adal himself certainly weren't being helped by us - they were helping us. Therefore we should have been based in some random camp somewhere in Netherstorm.

[Gungtah]

Well, here I was thinking that Blizzard couldn't make it any more obvious that Humans and Orcs are the only things that matter to them. Why pretend the natives of this world matter at all? (I won't even touch the social context of their statements about our battle on their world not being about them at all...)

Or the rampant imperialism, building settlements and fortresses only to be abandoned when we're done with Draenor and the busted Iron Horde.