Arms Rotation in Beta?

[Bloodletters]

They make very little sense and they haven't bothered to give us a common courtesy of saying "hey this is what we are thinking" or even "still working on it, chill out".

With the amount of time they spend tweeting ridiculously obvious stuff like "are you going to fix shamans running out of mana after 3 spells?" They could throw us a small bone without giving anything away. At least acknowledge our plight.

The worst thing that we're all dreading and something they don't want to reveal is that they don't know where they're taking the specs. These changes are nonsensical if they don't have a lot more in mind.

[Neehs]

Might aswell just leave it at the current MoP state, if they can't do better than this. I was really looking forward to the "Arms will be about large numbers" idea, but using a gcd every 4-5 seconds wasn't really what I had in mind.

[TheMightyMadmartigin]

Might aswell just leave it at the current MoP state, if they can't do better than this. I was really looking forward to the "Arms will be about large numbers" idea, but using a gcd every 4-5 seconds wasn't really what I had in mind.

I agree, I think the idea of 'big devastating' hits is as enticing an idea as any, but there is a balance right? For every added damaging ability there has to be a small take away from those big hits, otherwise you get into the overpowered realm, and that never lasts and is often met with harsh adjustments.

I think we all want to see warriors remain seated where they are in the melee hierarchy, no doubt about that. Maybe regardless of current changes and intentions they can and will be. Personally I like the instate of abilities that feed off of one another, like what I said in another post, OP speeding up MS usage and so forth. I think swapping out the idea of a 'AOE' filler and inputting at least another single target ability enhances were the spec is quite a bit. I've seen plenty of good ideas already from the community.

I just really hate the idea of using 'WW' as a filler. I mean just watching the Bahj video that Archi linked a day or so ago, CS>MS>WW>WW>WW. I mean thats very disappointing.

[Bigbazz]

They wanted to reduce the skill cap but keep it interesting, so you mostly just autoattack now.

[badaku]

With a healthy ~3s wait in between abilities.

Cool. We can alt tab to twitter between mortal strikes.

[Earthbound]

Cool. We can alt tab to twitter between mortal strikes.

#topping on #mythic grom #lookmanoeyes

[Crisius]

In response to Blizzards statement that arms is going to be about slow hard-hitting abilities, I'd be really interested in seeing some math as to how hard mortal strike would have to hit using the beta "rotation" with current gear/stats for it to keep ~500k dps single-target. 1,5+ mill average hits anyone?

[Snes]

Arms warriors:
Do you want big numbers infrequently?
-or-
Do you want smaller numbers more frequently?

You can't have both, that isn't balanced.

[TheMightyMadmartigin]

In response to Blizzards statement that arms is going to be about slow hard-hitting abilities, I'd be really interested in seeing some math as to how hard mortal strike would have to hit using the beta "rotation" with current gear/stats for it to keep ~500k dps single-target. 1,5+ mill average hits anyone?

Wouldn't that be nice....by by Stormbolt! Granted this isn't used as arms, but its the hardest hitting ability for us out there right now!

[Earthbound]

Arms warriors:
Do you want big numbers infrequently?
-or-
Do you want smaller numbers more frequently?

You can't have both, that isn't balanced.

There's a difference between "infrequently" and:

6 sec MS cd
20 sec CS cd
autoattack

[Wazooty]

Arms warriors:
Do you want big numbers infrequently?
-or-
Do you want smaller numbers more frequently?

You can't have both, that isn't balanced.

The entire arms rotation was about sometimes having quicker smaller strikes and sometimes having slow harder hitting strikes. That WAS how our rotation was defined. THey completely gutted it.

Unless they plan on reintroducing sudden death and above 20% execute...this is the lamest rotation ever.

[Bloodletters]

Arms warriors:
Do you want big numbers infrequently?
-or-
Do you want smaller numbers more frequently?

You can't have both, that isn't balanced.

Blizzard wants big numbers infrequently. I personally believe that a model like that can work, though there needs to be a low rage cost filler to prevent things from being completely dead.

This isn't about balance, btw. This is about the dynamics of how the spec plays. It's about the fact that it isn't very challenging. I don't think a spec has to be about how many buttons there are for it to be deep and interesting. You only have to look at Fury. CS, BT, RB, and HS for the most part through MOP. Yet you have a resource that matters. You have Enrage tracking which also matters and maximizing RB without overwriting stacks. All of those things present interesting gameplay with just four abilities.

[Bizerk]

What I don't understand is how they can go back over 5years to having a weak aoe attack in a single target rotation.

[TheMightyMadmartigin]

Blizzard wants big numbers infrequently. I personally believe that a model like that can work, though there needs to be a low rage cost filler to prevent things from being completely dead.

This isn't about balance, btw. This is about the dynamics of how the spec plays. It's about the fact that it isn't very challenging. I don't think a spec has to be about how many buttons there are for it to be deep and interesting. You only have to look at Fury. CS, BT, RB, and HS for the most part through MOP. Yet you have a resource that matters. You have Enrage tracking which also matters and maximizing RB without overwriting stacks. All of those things present interesting gameplay with just four abilities.

I don't disagree about dynamic gameplay, I agree whole heartedly. By balance, I simply meant that if they're going to add another damaging ability to our rotation, that they'd likely take that damage out of an existing intended rotational ability. I would think that they have a cap in mind, or at least a range of what type of damage they want the classes and specs to output in a given duration. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Retsef]

My biggest concern is when you explicitly DONT want aoe in the rotation, like protectors in SoO trying to get the 3rd boss down to match the first 2 sub 33%.

When you have to keep adds alive, etc.

Single target should be single. Aoe should be aoe.

Talents can be crossover, sure, but normal rotation I'm not sure about.

[Bigbazz]

I personally thought that Arms was at its best during the Dragon Soul patch Cataclysm (aside from stance dance macro sillyness), it was great fun to play... Fairly GCD capped there. I also think that Fury was at its best during T10 (2set) WOTLK phase, which combined big hits (BT/WW) with fast hits (on next hit heroic strike spam).

It's not hard to combine big hits with fast small hits to create a fun and effective playstyle. It's hard to tell exactly what they are planning with WOD beta as it is though, opinions aside about playstyles past/present it seems what they have going forward really does not have anything in common with any of it, and really makes no sense as a playstyle going forward.

Removal of Slam/Overpower/Heroic strike... These are iconic abilities, ones that work really well. Sudden death procs are what make Arms an interesting to play spec, and bleeds like deep wounds/rend are deep routed in the game since WOTLK (they sucked before then)... And for good reason, bleeds make complete sense, from a logical point of view, from a balancing point of view and from a gameplay point of view.

[TheMightyMadmartigin]

I know that everyone's primary focus is end game, what things will be like during a raid environment. But I was thinking about leveling a new ARMs warrior....FA-UNNNN!

[Archimtiros]

I know that everyone's primary focus is end game, what things will be like during a raid environment. But I was thinking about leveling a new ARMs warrior....FA-UNNNN!

Leveling isn't bad. I wouldn't call it fun, but it works.

The only thing fun about it is that you pretty much one shot mobs. I understand that is fun for some people, but even that quickly wears thin when it is the same two buttons over and over again.

Also the only reason it works in leveling is because of constant Charge (with Bull Rush). Get aggro without being able to charge and you are dead fish for at least 3-7 seconds while you auto attack for rage. That is not fun at all. It isn't compelling gameplay either. I cannot even imagine what it would be like on a pvp server, getting jumped by a Rogue or something. Your only hope is to Heroic Leap out and Charge back and even that will only get you enough rage for one or two attacks.

But then, Draenor is filled with high health "elite" mobs, but fighting them as Arms is downright atrocious. Pull one and you will quickly learn that Arms rotation is sorely lacking in the sustained format.

[TheMightyMadmartigin]

I'm sorry Archi, my comments were meant sarcastically. Also, I was more so referring to the low level grinding, less so the 90-100 grind. I apologize if that wasn't conveyed well.

I know there's already a whole lot of AA in lower levels, this just compounds it. I mean thank goodness for the paid 90s right!

[Archimtiros]

I'm sorry Archi, my comments were meant sarcastically. Also, I was more so referring to the low level grinding, less so the 90-100 grind. I apologize if that wasn't conveyed well.

I know there's already a whole lot of AA in lower levels, this just compounds it. I mean thank goodness for the paid 90s right!

The funniest thing is these Draenor intro quests whose quest rewards are "class abilities". I see the system getting scrapped because it is kind of nonsensical even if designed for boosted 90's; but each quest you unlock a set of abilities (cooldowns, utility spells, damage abilities, and later talent tiers).

For most classes, each set of unlocks gives 3-5 new abilities.

Warriors get 1-2.