I'm going to miss 10 man raiding

[Doomchicken]

I wouldn't get too comfortable with the 20 man only mythic model to be honest considering that they change how raiding works every expansion.

[Dasani]

Yes. I have always loved 10-man raiding so much more than 25. You can really bond with all the people there and have a good thing going on and the challenge is fun to overcome when working with so many fewer cooldowns and less ways to split your raid.

When my guild switched from 10 to 25man heroic and we went in to SOO with 15 pugs who had little to no experience doing heroic raids in SOO, we 1 shot every boss up to malkorok, 3 shot that one cause getting in puddles is hard apparently, then 1 shot everything to blackfuse and even got that one in about 6 pulls I believe. It was ridiculous how piss easy 25-man is compared to 10, it was downright disgusting how many mechanics you can straight up ignore and pay no attention to because of blanket healing and 3 times the number of healing cooldowns you can cycle through. You can just create orders for healing cooldowns and always have several things. People drop like flies in 25-man for doing shit so wrong even the OP number of healers can't heal through it and it doesn't even matter because 3 battle reses coupled with the fact each individual doesn't mean much of shit in the grand scheme of things, our core team carried that whole raid through 14/14 heroic on 25 the first week we ever attempted. I was frankly disgusted by how much easier the whole affair was, especially with shit like garrosh being able to use 3 tanks and not even hurt the raid any by doing so. It's just silly and ridiculous.

It is just downright depressing. Having to raid with a bunch of people I don't know and don't particularly like just because blizzard's piss poor choice to remove 10-man end game.

Blizzard always shits on 10-man raids anyway. Giving so much more loot and also higher % of warforged to 25s and making them easier too, I just don't understand the logic or reasoning. Why add incentive to shit people just don't want to do? If they would rather do 25s they would do 25s they don't need their hands held and get bonuses for doing so. So I guess blizzard said since they still can't get the majority of people to do 25s they'll just FORCE everyone into 20's. Ridiculous, stupid, and sad.

[Denkou]

You will be able to raid with any raid size you want in the WoD raid difficulty called "heroic".

I'm assuming the OP raids the current heroic (new Mythic), which is a locked 20-man size in WoD.

[aziras]

I think the only problem for 10 man guilds expanding now is finding people whom are at the same level of play but also gel well with the group. Its hard trying to get into a group of 10 friends and becoming the 11th friend kind of thing but it'll happen eventually.

I think this is actually part of the biggest problem. 25man raid roosters tend to be build more on a "raiding guild logistics" premise, whereas 10man raid groups are often a bunch of friends playing together. At least that is how I have run my 40/20/25/10 man raid groups in the past when I was raid leading. My 10man group was actually the hardest to manage, because it had a core of 8-9 people and some that only joined every other time or so. It was also a bunch of friends, with very different skill levels. Growing this group to double size would have been impossible. Too many bad players and the raids would have failed hard, but if we recruited good players they would complain why we are dragging along the bad ones each week. Now this is not all that relevant for mythic, because we would never have been able to do mythics with this kind of "friend group". But at the same time, I also expect that to be true for most of the friend groups out there. For then the flex'y changes will be great. It will be awesome having the option to bring along 10-25 players for a raid. No more bench, no more upset friends because they happened to sign up as #11.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard always shits on 10-man raids anyway. Giving so much more loot and also higher % of warforged to 25s and making them easier too, I just don't understand the logic or reasoning. Why add incentive to shit people just don't want to do? If they would rather do 25s they would do 25s they don't need their hands held and get bonuses for doing so. So I guess blizzard said since they still can't get the majority of people to do 25s they'll just FORCE everyone into 20's. Ridiculous, stupid, and sad.

I always believed the reason for favoring the large raid size was that it allows more players to get carried. We saw the effect of this big-time in the vanilla->TBC transition. Most guilds had enough players to field 2x 25man raids. However, they chose not to. Why? because it would either have been an A and a B raid group (with the B raid group having significantly slower progress), or it would have been a constant struggle for the good players to reposition themselves into an A raid because they could see that they would have a much bigger chance of success if they gathered all the talent in a single raid group. Either situation is a nightmare for raid leaders, and unless managed the right way, will lead to guild exodus. Quite a few guilds had this sort of break-away in the start of TBC, where the best raiders did not get their A-team, so they ditched the raid and pulled along many of the best 25 players. And because they then had a very good core, it was easy to recruit replacements for the missing people that happened to stay behind in the old guild (which often fell hard on their rear ends in raids and struggled to even finish Kara).
In WoD, Blizzard is likely hoping that 20man mythic will lead to more aspiring guilds doing 20-25man heroics, instead of just doing 10man for logistics. Because if a guild aspire for mythics, they would have to adapt the whole guild progression towards that 20man core. Eventually pulling more people through normal and heroic progression, people who would otherwise be stuck having to form their own guild (which is not as easy as one might think) or play LFR/PUGs.

[Gumboy]

You will be able to raid with any raid size you want in the WoD raid difficulty called "heroic".

And thats all fine and good for people that do not want to do the most challenging raids

[DarkPhoenix]

I agree, while I love large raids the 10 mans are where me and my friends are at at this point in our lives.

We have a close knit team that operates well together.

Now if we want to do any kind of 'difficult' raiding we have to learn to play with 10 new people (which is a bigger challenge than it sounds) and learn how they operate and react to things.

[Deleted]

Im quite sure that lot of 10 man guilds who will go 20 man will end up failing on mytical difficulty and then go back to 10 man heroic version.

[Paythepiper]

trollocks take you all! i miss the bloody 40man raids, nostalgic as fk, but i do miss it, 10man cozy raids.. i miss the army aspect of raiding, were you have the supreme Commander of a unit of 40 man doing complicated and Strategic Movies to bring Down the target

[Sturmgewehr86]

Im quite sure that lot of 10 man guilds who will go 20 man will end up failing on mytical difficulty and then go back to 10 man heroic version.

I am quite sure you are clueless how the mind of a Heroic(currently) raider works.The Heroic dificulty(normal) in wod will take 1-2 weeks for a clear , and if the ppl can't prorgress in mythic the entire group will dismantle.If your mind is set on progressing you either find another guild or simply stop raiding , you don't do the normal garbage.lol that was a bit offtopic let me get on the subject at hand.I raided 10 man through the entire expansion and yes i will miss it a lot.As most of you that posted we are close group of friends and it will be weird to expand the rouster with 15 more ppl.I am currently raiding 14/14 hc 25 man and the personal requirement for each player seems pretty f***** minimal, i will miss the every mistake matter that is 10 man.

[kamuimac]

Yes. I have always loved 10-man raiding so much more than 25. You can really bond with all the people there and have a good thing going on and the challenge is fun to overcome when working with so many fewer cooldowns and less ways to split your raid.

When my guild switched from 10 to 25man heroic and we went in to SOO with 15 pugs who had little to no experience doing heroic raids in SOO, we 1 shot every boss up to malkorok, 3 shot that one cause getting in puddles is hard apparently, then 1 shot everything to blackfuse and even got that one in about 6 pulls I believe. It was ridiculous how piss easy 25-man is compared to 10, it was downright disgusting how many mechanics you can straight up ignore and pay no attention to because of blanket healing and 3 times the number of healing cooldowns you can cycle through. You can just create orders for healing cooldowns and always have several things. People drop like flies in 25-man for doing shit so wrong even the OP number of healers can't heal through it and it doesn't even matter because 3 battle reses coupled with the fact each individual doesn't mean much of shit in the grand scheme of things, our core team carried that whole raid through 14/14 heroic on 25 the first week we ever attempted. I was frankly disgusted by how much easier the whole affair was, especially with shit like garrosh being able to use 3 tanks and not even hurt the raid any by doing so. It's just silly and ridiculous.

It is just downright depressing. Having to raid with a bunch of people I don't know and don't particularly like just because blizzard's piss poor choice to remove 10-man end game.

Blizzard always shits on 10-man raids anyway. Giving so much more loot and also higher % of warforged to 25s and making them easier too, I just don't understand the logic or reasoning. Why add incentive to shit people just don't want to do? If they would rather do 25s they would do 25s they don't need their hands held and get bonuses for doing so. So I guess blizzard said since they still can't get the majority of people to do 25s they'll just FORCE everyone into 20's. Ridiculous, stupid, and sad.

i had exackt same feelling about 25 man when i did on alt first 9 hc bosses in 25 hc pug in february - its also a big reason why im not keen on change to 20 man :/ as long as u have 1 capable person who keep track and call out cds 25 man is much much much more easier then 10 hc and anyone claiming differnet stright up lie to make himself feel better

+ additional nerf to 25 man by how much showered those people are in wf - its beyond ridiculous - and yet people didnt not want to go 25 hc - most of guilds hwich switched were forced to not they wanted to if htey wanted to continiue raiding in wod on the same lv :/

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Im quite sure that lot of 10 man guilds who will go 20 man will end up failing on mytical difficulty and then go back to 10 man heroic version.

this wont happen - if they wont progress into mythic the guild will break up - 10 hc was the "casual" raid mode for people who wanted chalenge - expet for maybe top 1000 guilds t17 will be a massacre for anyone who wanted to raid anythign harder then flex and isnt in 14/14 hc guild atm :/

[Geckoo]

i had exackt same feelling about 25 man when i did on alt first 9 hc bosses in 25 hc pug in february - its also a big reason why im not keen on change to 20 man :/ as long as u have 1 capable person who keep track and call out cds 25 man is much much much more easier then 10 hc and anyone claiming differnet stright up lie to make himself feel better

+ additional nerf to 25 man by how much showered those people are in wf - its beyond ridiculous - and yet people didnt not want to go 25 hc - most of guilds hwich switched were forced to not they wanted to if htey wanted to continiue raiding in wod on the same lv :/

Things look way easier when you not only already know the boss but also outgear the whole place. One of the reasons they switched to a single size is because they have never been capable of offering the same challenge to both sizes. Sometimes 10 man had it easier, others it was 25 man.

[aziras]

trollocks take you all! i miss the bloody 40man raids, nostalgic as fk, but i do miss it, 10man cozy raids.. i miss the army aspect of raiding, were you have the supreme Commander of a unit of 40 man doing complicated and Strategic Movies to bring Down the target

Apart from some aspects of Naxx40, nothing in vanilla required "complicated and strategic moves" from that 40man group. Most of it was tank'n'spank and mechanics requiring very little from the players beyond follow the main assist dps'ing or set your addons up for auto-whack-a-mole if you were healing. The biggest challenge was actually to get 40 people to be online at the same time and stay online for the duration of the raid. Not to mention being satisfied enough that they would bother to go again the next raid.

Sure, it was bigger, but not harder.

[Gorthezar]

RIP 10 mans. I will always love you.