Stat squish - Is it final?

[Sarevokcz]

The only way they could squish more is if they squish the gear starting from Pandaria Quest gear to Warforged Heroic. Even with squish best T16 gear has twice the stats of best T14 gear. If they squish the low levels more than they already have there's barely gonna be any upgrades when you level.

yes, the 1-90 was squished almost to its limits, they shouldnt have went overboard with the power you get in WOD.

[Jetjaguar]

Don't expect HP numbers to balloon from tier to tier like expansions past

[sarecho]

they fucked up. they tried to compromise and they fucked up something as simple as a stat squish
the whiners who want to be super duper strong would attach a game shark to their hard drive if it means they could use uber leet cheat codes with wow

fuck them, they've got ADD, they're bad and they won't be around long anyway. squish properly, linearly, 1-cap

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Don't expect HP numbers to balloon from tier to tier like expansions past

yeah, ignore all the datamined shit that says we're going to triple our hp from fresh 100 to last tier of wod

[Sinndra]

True, but I fear that at the end of expansion we will run into the same thing (obviously not so ridiculous but not far off). Health is already very high and dps like in other expansions will skyrocket near the end of it.

this is why im confused about your statements. i see many people take a look at health pools and try to apply old calculations to guess at what will happen by end tier. you cant take 100k in WoD and multiply that based off of cata or MoP ilvl jumps and assume end tier in WoD will increase the same.

the squish changes that. it not only changed the visual stats but it also changes how the stats increase from this point on. you have to apply the new math to the beta numbers. how do the stats scale exactly in 6.0 gear ~> to 6.2 gear? we dont really know since 6.2 is not available to us yet, however if you follow the base stat numbers you should be able to see the new math in say lvl 100 dungeon blues up to lvl 100 raid purples.

you want to predict the end of WoD by using an outdated equation from MoP, you are just going to get the wrong answer here. you have to predict the end of WoD by using updated WoD equations.

[Concatto]

They aren't going to just reduce everything by 90% and that's it; they will change the scaling as well. Remember this image?



Just because we are starting with ~20k DPS doesn't mean we will end with ~500k, like in Mists.

[Seezer]

question, are any of you people that think "the squish doesnt go far enough", in the beta? because to me it just seems like a bunch of paranoia and misunderstandings about how the squish actually works.

People know how it works. But we're at cata dps levels. They're going to have to squish it again next expac. Why not just go back to vanilla or BC?

[Vargur]

How do you know they aren't going to squish again next expansion?

lol don't ruin it for me. I was looking forward to the expansion after WoD, see maybe if WoW will come back on its track.

[sarecho]

They aren't going to just reduce everything by 90% and that's it; they will change the scaling as well. Remember this image?



Just because we are starting with ~20k DPS doesn't mean we will end with ~500k, like in Mists.

they've completely deviated from that image already. you can use those magic numbers on the left to see that much. the mop line is closer to where the lk/mop line is and the new wod line will be slightly lower than the current mop line

it's all WAY higher than that chart showed. they fucked up

[Sylreick]

They aren't going to just reduce everything by 90% and that's it; they will change the scaling as well. Remember this image?



Just because we are starting with ~20k DPS doesn't mean we will end with ~500k, like in Mists.

Very much this. The thing people don't seem to realize is that the squish is going back to a linear state, which means stat growth through raid tiers will be a lot lower. Think back to the increases during TBC raids, or even vanilla. This slow growth will undoubtedly get large again, but it will be a few expansions out. People are stuck in the mindset of how stats/dps and crap go up exponentially in Cata/MoP, which isn't going to be the case in WoD all thanks to the squish.

[Concatto]

they've completely deviated from that image already. you can use those magic numbers on the left to see that much. the mop line is closer to where the lk/mop line is and the new wod line will be slightly lower than the current mop line

it's all WAY higher than that chart showed. they fucked up

The red line is the Cataclysm one, not Mists.

[Deleted]

this is why im confused about your statements. i see many people take a look at health pools and try to apply old calculations to guess at what will happen by end tier. you cant take 100k in WoD and multiply that based off of cata or MoP ilvl jumps and assume end tier in WoD will increase the same.

the squish changes that. it not only changed the visual stats but it also changes how the stats increase from this point on. you have to apply the new math to the beta numbers. how do the stats scale exactly in 6.0 gear ~> to 6.2 gear? we dont really know since 6.2 is not available to us yet, however if you follow the base stat numbers you should be able to see the new math in say lvl 100 dungeon blues up to lvl 100 raid purples.

you want to predict the end of WoD by using an outdated equation from MoP, you are just going to get the wrong answer here. you have to predict the end of WoD by using updated WoD equations.

From leveling blues/greens (580ilvl) to epics (660) my hp went from 143k to 249k (both at lvl 100). I'd say that's quite a gap. Didn't get a chance to look at dps more closely. That's 80ilvl's which should be reachable before the last tier.

[Sarevokcz]

Very much this. The thing people don't seem to realize is that the squish is going back to a linear state, which means stat growth through raid tiers will be a lot lower. Think back to the increases during TBC raids, or even vanilla. This slow growth will undoubtedly get large again, but it will be a few expansions out. People are stuck in the mindset of how stats/dps and crap go up exponentially in Cata/MoP, which isn't going to be the case in WoD all thanks to the squish.

no, people who actually tested beta and saw stats KNOW that gear scales exponentially once again in WoD, that graph is not only outdated, it doesnt even show the most important part - WoD curve.

[Sylreick]

From leveling blues/greens (580ilvl) to epics (660) my hp went from 143k to 249k (both at lvl 100). I'd say that's quite a gap. Didn't get a chance to look at dps more closely.

This is because they changed how HP grows per point of stamina. They've stated (and many other posters have been repeating) that this is to counter the increase in DPS on a tier by tier basis. All to lower and effectively remove resilience from pvp, with the added benefit of playing into their new healer model of triage. You can't use HP as a comparison method for the squish argument because it was altered differently than other stats.

[Manhands]

They are going to have to do this every expansion with their new system. We will probably see around the same numbers every expansion from here on out.

Which isn't so bad. Works for me, anyway.

[Sinndra]

From leveling blues/greens (580ilvl) to epics (660) my hp went from 143k to 249k (both at lvl 100). I'd say that's quite a gap. Didn't get a chance to look at dps more closely. That's 80ilvl's which should be reachable before the last tier.

and ill say again, stop using health as a qualifier. we know it has a different formula to follow because of pvp reasons (removal of resil). what should be looked at is base stats. how much do they go up?

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also this:

This is because they changed how HP grows per point of stamina. They've stated (and many other posters have been repeating) that this is to counter the increase in DPS on a tier by tier basis. All to lower and effectively remove resilience from pvp, with the added benefit of playing into their new healer model of triage. You can't use HP as a comparison method for the squish argument because it was altered differently than other stats.

[Deleted]

They are going to have to do this every expansion with their new system. We will probably see around the same numbers every expansion from here on out.

It won't be the same numbers but less of a jump from expansion to expansion imo. going from what 2-5k in tbc to the 400-500k single target dps alot of gear characters are doing now. I'd assume in the same time frame with the new squish we'd jump from the 15-30k ish we're doing on beta now up to maybe 150k ish 3-4 years down the line?

[intrinsc]

The squish will affect how fast numbers on gear inflate that DPS. So even if people are doing 25k at the start of the expac it doesn't mean people will be doing 600k ST at the end of the expac because gear won't be scaling like it does in MoP.

[Deleted]

and ill say again, stop using health as a qualifier. we know it has a different formula to follow because of pvp reasons (removal of resil). what should be looked at is base stats. how much do they go up?

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also this:

Taking a staff as an expample of an item

ilvl588 - 113 intel 170 stam 82 mastery 64 spirit 648 spell

ilvl660 - 221 intel 331 stam 147 crit 147 master 1265 spell

~double in 72ilvls

[Callsignecho]

It's also quite hard to discuss anything about dps numbers as balance is currently nowhere to be found. However, I think the HP/MP numbers could be lowered by a fair margin from what they currently are at and that they stated that they wanted tank HP to be around 1 million by the end of the expansion from 300k-400k that it is in 660 gear. That is something that doesn't sit well with me.

[Hotmail]

Sorry, but stat squish was never anything more than overmarketed technical tuning, and so expectations should be set accordingly. Sure, the lesser reasons it was done was so numbers would be "easier to digest" and "more nostalgic", but the actual motivation behind it was purely for experimentation and long-term streamlining.

Everything about this xpack is overmarketed, right down to the tiniest detail. It's what neo-Blizzard does best, serve you a 3-star restaurant course while spending more resources into convincing you it's a 5 star course, than actually attempting to improve the food. And it works.

I still have faith WoD will be fun, I just wish they'd spend more time on developing substance and less on selling make-believe.