Anyone else happy this game is not developed by democracy ?

[Deleted]

I know I am, it's absolutely amusing to see people whine about everything in the book on forums. I'm pretty sure 80% of these people would actually clap during blizzcon, about the things that are being whined about now. Best of all arguments is " I am a customer you have to listen" ... I'm rolling on the floor each time I see this pop up, I work in sales myself and if I think customer is rude I ask them to calm down, if they are aggressive I call security. People are being keyboard warriors thinking blizzard spins around them. We'll guess what, forums in my eyes are to suggest ideas that could be considered during development, no one here has a right to demand a single thing. I truly feel sorry for developers to have to respond to any of these toxic comments.

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Or threats like subs will drop , il unsubscribe are good too, they should say " go ahead" sadly they aren't that direct

[Asur]

How I feel about most of the wow community, the customers is NOT always right, if they were no business would be in business very long

[tj119]

Fans are morons. WoW would have died in early Wrath if fans got a say in things.

[cptaylor38]

There's a difference between working a replaceable minimum wage job at Walmart and being a game developer making six figures.

And I feel sorry for myself for having to decipher that grammatical mess of a wall of text.

It's understandable to have your own vision for a game, but I'm not really sure at this point if they're even aware of what that vision is anymore. It seems that when they further developed this lack of design by democracy they also lost the ability to communicate honestly with the community, to develop content at a steady pace, to come up with story lines that aren't Soap Opera meets comic book plot-lines, and they've also somehow gotten even greedier.

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Fans are morons. WoW would have died in early Wrath if fans got a say in things.

WoW wouldn't have made it to Wrath if not for fans. So I'm not sure I follow. You do realize that for a business to be successful, you need customers and in order to keep customers you have to keep them satisfied, right?

[Doctor]

I agree with you, although your post comes off as somewhat combative in its own right. I think a lot of those angry players want to feel like they have some control, (don't we all), and the "Official" forums give them a place to blow off steam, or just alleviate boredom by getting psyched up over something (or nothing). It does get a little tiring after a while, but only if you feel compelled to take part in those discussions. I personally won't, but you are free to do as you like.

[cptaylor38]

How I feel about most of the wow community, the customers is NOT always right, if they were no business would be in business very long

No, they're not always right. But I guess the ones that felt they should have been seen as right have already left which is why the game has lost millions of subscribers.

[Dakara]

Even if WOW was down to 500k Subs, there would still be massive conflict between players as to "how to fix WOW". Listening the majority is just another way of pissing off the other 49% of your audience... just like every election.

Bottom line is, someone has to draw a line in the sand and that's where to devs come in. I'd be lying if I said I was 100% behind every decision made in WOW... I've had lots of "WTF?!?!" reactions to game changes over the past 10 years, but you take the good with the bad.

Admittedly (and this isn't a dig at GC), I find myself quite impressed with the direction of Warlords. I don't agree with everything, but I feel it's moving in the right direction again.

WoW wouldn't have made it to Wrath if not for fans. So I'm not sure I follow. You do realize that for a business to be successful, you need customers and in order to keep customers you have to keep them satisfied, right?

But at the same time, you can't keep everyone happy either. Every decision is going to piss someone off. Imagine if the "want it now" crowd got there way and there was 100% loots drops in raids (for example). Everyone would be happy for a month, then be bored. Sometimes, people don't know what they want.... very similar to being a parent really, sometimes you have to protect your kids (players) from themselves.

[Deleted]

There's a difference between working a replaceable minimum wage job at Walmart and being a game developer making six figures.

And I feel sorry for myself for having to decipher that grammatical mess of a wall of text.

It's understandable to have your own vision for a game, but I'm not really sure at this point if they're even aware of what that vision is anymore. It seems that when they further developed this lack of design by democracy they also lost the ability to communicate honestly with the community, to develop content at a steady pace, to come up with story lines that aren't Soap Opera meets comic book plot-lines, and they've also somehow gotten even greedier.

Here is a good example too, if you don't want to read something don't, if you don't want to respond then don't. How do you deal with life if you feel sorry for yourself about things like that

[Mormolyce]

Ironically almost everything they've put in the game that has attracted serious QQ has been an attempt to address fan feedback.

All things considered they do a good job of balancing fan concerns vs. their vision for the game.

But yes if this was a democracy I shudder to think what kind of dreck the game would consist of. The fan consensus doesn't even know what it wants, if it got half of what it's always demanding it'd be on the forums the next day furious about it.

[Mister Cheese]

There's nothing wrong with listening to community feedback. But there's a point where a line needs to be drawn. Blizzard needs to have creative freedom over their game. This game would get stale and boring quick if the fans had their way.

[cptaylor38]

I agree with you, although your post comes off as somewhat combative in its own right. I think a lot of those angry players want to feel like they have some control, (don't we all), and the "Official" forums give them a place to blow off steam, or just alleviate boredom by getting psyched up over something (or nothing). It does get a little tiring after a while, but only if you feel compelled to take part in those discussions. I personally won't, but you are free to do as you like.

I don't know if it's even a matter of control so much as respect. It feels like there is none anymore. As long-time patrons of their business and this product, no $15 dollars is not a lot of money but when you multiply that by however many months you've played and add in the expansions and services you've bought you start to realize you've put quite an investment into it. Were they forcing you? No. But does that take away your right to voice your opinion and weigh in your preference for how you want the game to be designed? No. You still have every right as a customer to do that.

Plus, they're always raving about how they get excited about customer feedback and appreciate it because it helps them in the design process, but then they blatantly admit that we might as well not give feedback because if it in any way contrasts with their choice for the game it's pointless. I don't think I've seen but maybe one or two suggestions ever get any praise from developers. And I don't think I've ever seen any suggestion threads on the forums with very valid ideas get any nod or response from a blue poster while someone else can post an off-topic should-be-banned-for-trolling thread about a chicken crossing the road joke and a blue poster comments almost immediately.

[mickybrighteyes]

WoW wouldn't have made it to Wrath if not for fans. So I'm not sure I follow. You do realize that for a business to be successful, you need customers and in order to keep customers you have to keep them satisfied, right?

That's not the complete answer.

A business has to keep a certain point of their consumer base content to scrap by. a Larger portion to be successful. But by no means do they need to appease EVERYONE. That rarely ever works out, and you need to be as charismatic as fucking Hitler or Jesus Christ to pull it off.

WoW isn't burger king... you can't always have it your way.

edit: also all the good suggestions take months or years to get throught he pipeline... green fire for warlocks has been suggested/begged/asked for since pre-tbc as a worst case example. TM/SS is FINALLY getting around to being a thing again.

they do listen sometimes... but we only ever really hear about the less than great ideas like buff/nerf X class/boss/goldsource

[cptaylor38]

Here is a good example too, if you don't want to read something don't, if you don't want to respond then don't. How do you deal with life if you feel sorry for yourself about things like that

I suppose by not taking everything completely literal and realizing that exaggeration can be a device for humor. BRUH.

[Deleted]

I don't know if it's even a matter of control so much as respect. It feels like there is none anymore. As long-time patrons of their business and this product, no $15 dollars is not a lot of money but when you multiply that by however many months you've played and add in the expansions and services you've bought you start to realize you've put quite an investment into it. Were they forcing you? No. But does that take away your right to voice your opinion and weigh in your preference for how you want the game to be designed? No. You still have every right as a customer to do that.

Plus, they're always raving about how they get excited about customer feedback and appreciate it because it helps them in the design process, but then they blatantly admit that we might as well not give feedback because if it in any way contrasts with their choice for the game it's pointless. I don't think I've seen but maybe one or two suggestions ever get any praise from developers. And I don't think I've ever seen any suggestion threads on the forums with very valid ideas get any nod or response from a blue poster while someone else can post an off-topic should-be-banned-for-trolling thread about a chicken crossing the road joke and a blue poster comments almost immediately.

Of course they say customer feedback is important, I never seen any business say "I don't give a shit about what you say"

[mickybrighteyes]

Of course they say customer feedback is important, I never seen any business say "I don't give a shit about what you say"

does "harden the f*** up" count?

[cptaylor38]

That's not the complete answer.

A business has to keep a certain point of their consumer base content to scrap by. a Larger portion to be successful. But by no means do they need to appease EVERYONE. That rarely ever works out, and you need to be as charismatic as fucking Hitler or Jesus Christ to pull it off.

WoW isn't burger king... you can't always have it your way.

Well a democracy means a majority of people. And if the majority of your customer agrees that something should be a certain way, perhaps as a business they should give in? It's not a matter of me having it MY way. It's the majority having it THEIR way. In the end this game is an addiction for a lot of people, and a lifestyle, so people will pay and play despite not getting what they feel they deserve or want. Doesn't mean it's right, and doesn't mean that their design philosophy is correct. It mostly just shows how successful their design is psychologically.

[Deleted]

does "harden the f*** up" count?

I'd laugh so hard if they said that during blizzcon

[Doctor]

I don't know if it's even a matter of control so much as respect. It feels like there is none anymore. As long-time patrons of their business and this product, no $15 dollars is not a lot of money but when you multiply that by however many months you've played and add in the expansions and services you've bought you start to realize you've put quite an investment into it. Were they forcing you? No. But does that take away your right to voice your opinion and weigh in your preference for how you want the game to be designed? No. You still have every right as a customer to do that.

As a person who played for years, I understand where you're coming from. Somewhere along the way though, it was determined that no matter how long a player was subscribed, they were no more valuable than a person who just purchased the game. (It was right when the term "special snowflake" started to come into play). I had to accept that there was nothing I could do, other than stop paying (and playing) until I felt it was worth it for me again. What else could I do? They have millions of subscribers, so they have the luxury of losing me as a player, regardless of my history with them.

I also understand the frustration when a thread like "Sha of Happiness" got Blizzard attention while they remained silent on the 30 thread CRZ fiasco. It's sort of like a negative acknowledgement, I guess. Who knows what sort of internal workings were going on (and go on). Maybe at one point they really did appreciate feedback, but by now they may disregard player input entirely.

I think they could have saved a lot of face (and subscribers) by resisting the urge to "disrespect" those players who were particularly upset, someone has to be the bigger person, but that famous "Wow, dungeons are hard!" (which I always read as a mockery of the famous degenerate Barbie "Wow, math is hard!") showed that Blizzard was willing to publicly fight fire with fire (or sling mud with the best of them) and it all went downhill from there.

Well that's just like, my opinion man, take it as you will. I covered a lot of ground in this one post, just didn't feel like going off into too many tangents on the topic quite yet.

[mickybrighteyes]

Well a democracy means a majority of people. And if the majority of your customer agrees that something should be a certain way, perhaps as a business they should give in? It's not a matter of me having it MY way. It's the majority having it THEIR way. In the end this game is an addiction for a lot of people, and a lifestyle, so people will pay and play despite not getting what they feel they deserve or want. Doesn't mean it's right, and doesn't mean that their design philosophy is correct. It mostly just shows how successful their design is psychologically.

How do you discern majority on anything in wow. A bunch of faceless masses talking about [insert topic]. the most vocal has been the apparent measurement of choice thus far.... can you see the problem yet?

[Notshauna]

How do you discern majority on anything in wow. A bunch of faceless masses talking about [insert topic]. the most vocal has been the apparent measurement of choice thus far.... can you see the problem yet?

So it's like real world democracy?