Gamergate - OP updated 27 October

[hrugner]

I'd say the former. Early video games often had no female characters at all, and it was utterly dominated by young male gamers.

- - - Updated - - -



Interesting side note: up until about 100 years ago, it was the other way around. Pink was a male colour, and blue (light blue, specifically) was a feminine colour.

As to the first bit, I'm not sure if that's the case; there weren't demographic studies done for consumption of games during the 80s-90s (that I know of) and some of my favorite games from that period were created by Cory and Lori Ann Cole or Roberta Williams. I'm pretty sure the no women in gaming thing is more recent.

As to the second bit, I considered pointing that out; but the amount of reading, charts, histories and what not that talk about the benefit of gender branding and the marketing benefit of segregated market groups is really too much to recommend without giving you a degree afterward.

[Sj]

I would think that it's the former (less women play, but during the first steps of gaming) arcades were traditionally filled with boys which is why when consoles took their spot games catered more to male audiences. (back when games were 8 bits) The reason for that is that even though women's rights were advancing, parents raising children during those times still held on to the ideals instilled in them by their parents. (women belong at home guys have fun)

Yup. Which makes me wonder why we're getting blamed. I don't know anybody in my network of gamers, developers, and writers that don't want women playing or making games. Times have changed, attitudes... not so much.

[Mahourai]

AEI is a big "C" group, and a lot of folks are trying to say that she's "a fake feminist" and a big "C" conservative because of her association with them. The fact that she's a registered Democrat and has contributed to multiple left leaning sites like Huffington Post, The Atlantic, Slate, Time Magazine, and been on The Daily Show (they have conservatives on, but they generally stick to inviting reasonable folks on the show) is all beside the point to folks criticizing her.

Her article for the Huffington Post was about how the wage gap doesn't exist. Her article in the Atlantic was about advertising her book The War Against Boys, and the article opens with the absolutely bonkers statement "It's a bad time to be a boy in America.... The shooting at Columbine High last spring might be said to symbolize the spirit of American boys." Her articles in Slate include a discussion about how men shouldn't do housework because their wives will fuck them less often due to being "feminized". Her Time contributions are three articles that, again, serve primarily to generate book sales. In her writing she compares moral relativism to sociopathy and thinks that a Jay Leno sketch where kids can't finish Bible verses indicates moral depravity in modern society. She writes of evil and corrupt college professors indoctrinating the youth.

Sommers self-identifies as libertarian, but she's staunchly conservative in her moral values. The only way you could believe otherwise is if you didn't do even a cursory examination of the contents of her writing and just assumed that because she was published on Huffington Post she must be a centrist. I'm not trying to argue that because she's a conservative her arguments are less valuable or accurate. I'm just stating the fact that she is a conservative just so we're not confused.

[Deleted]

Yup. Which makes me wonder why we're getting blamed. I don't know anybody in my network of gamers, developers, and writers that don't want women playing or making games. Times have changed, attitudes... not so much.

I don't even think that at this point any reasonable person can think that the majority isn't fine with women playing and making video games. I would say people either don't care either way, because they don't care or don't even know who exactly is behind the games they play, or they are in favour of women playing and making video games, because really, why wouldn't they?

[mordale]

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-L...st-be-reformed
hmm.

[Sj]

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-L...st-be-reformed
hmm.

Those emails don't really show anything damning. Just people processing their feelings over someone being victimized and wanting to do something nice. I'd like to see the full exchange. I'd also like to see their exchanges about Max Temkin.

[Durandro]

As to the first bit, I'm not sure if that's the case; there weren't demographic studies done for consumption of games during the 80s-90s (that I know of) and some of my favorite games from that period were created by Cory and Lori Ann Cole or Roberta Williams. I'm pretty sure the no women in gaming thing is more recent.

As to the second bit, I considered pointing that out; but the amount of reading, charts, histories and what not that talk about the benefit of gender branding and the marketing benefit of segregated market groups is really too much to recommend without giving you a degree afterward.

You could be right. More of a gut feeling though, considering how things were in the 80's.

And as for knowing the pink/blue thing. I watch QI, so I'm not as smart as I make out sometimes!

[Edge-]

Her article for the Huffington Post was about how the wage gap doesn't exist.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christ...b_3384618.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christ...b_2073804.html

It was to provide some context for why there is a gap, and how numbers are used to tell various stories depending on how you frame them. Not arguing that it doesn't exist.

Her article in the Atlantic was about advertising her book The War Against Boys, and the article opens with the absolutely bonkers statement "It's a bad time to be a boy in America.... The shooting at Columbine High last spring might be said to symbolize the spirit of American boys."

She's covered a bit more than just that.

http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/arc...inists/277179/

Here's the 2000 (14 years ago) article that you took only part of the opening sentence from and completely ignored the rest of the context of the article, which delves into performance statistics for both genders throughout schools.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...t-boys/304659/

Her articles in Slate include a discussion about how men shouldn't do housework because their wives will fuck them less often due to being "feminized".

A response to a study claiming that men who did more chores did get more sex. She backs her argument up with studies, just as the other side does.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor..._less_sex.html

Her Time contributions are three articles that, again, serve primarily to generate book sales. In her writing she compares moral relativism to sociopathy and thinks that a Jay Leno sketch where kids can't finish Bible verses indicates moral depravity in modern society. She writes of evil and corrupt college professors indoctrinating the youth.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/19/sch...stile-to-boys/
http://ideas.time.com/2013/10/28/wha...-boys-succeed/
http://time.com/2974/masculinity-is-more-than-a-mask/

Didn't see any mention of Jay Leno, moral relativism or depravity, or college professors indoctrinating. Granted I've only had time to do quick skims and not read them in-depth (it's been forever since I've read any of them).

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-L...st-be-reformed
hmm.

The "who hasn't slept with a PR person or developer" bit isn't exclusive to gaming journalism. In PR in general it's very common for PR folks (mainly women, sadly) to sleep with journalists for articles.

That just jumped out at me before I've had a chance to read the whole thing. Will give it a look now.

[Wildberry]

but she's staunchly conservative in her moral values.

Definitely explains her support for the LGBT crowd. I know that when I think of someone who is "staunchly conservative in [their] moral values" I picture individuals at pride parades. She truly is a female version of Rick Santorum.

[Deleted]

Bah once this is over im getting off twitter. fuck me , its depressing having to deal with people who think they are important because they have X amount of followers

[Mahourai]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christ...b_3384618.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christ...b_2073804.html

It was to provide some context for why there is a gap, and how numbers are used to tell various stories depending on how you frame them. Not arguing that it doesn't exist.

She's arguing the wage gap doesn't exist in the form its detractors imply, and that any gap is just a natural formation due to women (for example) working less overtime.

A response to a study claiming that men who did more chores did get more sex. She backs her argument up with studies, just as the other side does.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor..._less_sex.html

Such a study is demonstrating a correlation, not a causal effect as Sommers intimates. The effect measured is small as hell. It relies on self-reported statistics on sexual encounters. But the point isn't that I want to have a discussion with you on the accuracy of her argument.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/19/sch...stile-to-boys/
http://ideas.time.com/2013/10/28/wha...-boys-succeed/
http://time.com/2974/masculinity-is-more-than-a-mask/

Didn't see any mention of Jay Leno, moral relativism or depravity, or college professors indoctrinating. Granted I've only had time to do quick skims and not read them in-depth (it's been forever since I've read any of them).

Those are two distinct thoughts that I was unclear in separating - that she wrote three articles in Time to advertise her book and that in her other writing she did etc etc.

Anyway. The post I was replying to was this:

AEI is a big "C" group, and a lot of folks are trying to say that she's "a fake feminist" and a big "C" conservative because of her association with them. The fact that she's a registered Democrat and has contributed to multiple left leaning sites like Huffington Post, The Atlantic, Slate, Time Magazine, and been on The Daily Show (they have conservatives on, but they generally stick to inviting reasonable folks on the show) is all beside the point to folks criticizing her.

Now, you don't actually assert that she is not conservative. You just say that people criticizing Sommers must consider her contributions to HuffPo, Slate et al beside the point. Setting aside the dire notion that Time and HuffPo are now the barometers for left-leaning publications - she didn't write any left-leaning stuff for them. They are, in fact, beside the point. She's conservative as shit.

Again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with her by applying that label. It's just disingenuous to pretend like she is a modern Democrat who just so happens to contribute to AEI.

[veehro]

Liana K a contributor at Polygon and metaleater has broke the silence. She spoke pro #gamergate on a stream with Sargon_of_Akkad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHfu3W1BGE

Her articles are not about "social justice" and she seems to be a legit gamer knowing her shit.

I sugest you guys turn your addblock On and read this

http://www.polygon.com/2014/9/18/633...h-games-heroes

If you like it and you enjoy what she wrote, then please, leave a comment on the comment section that you are suporting these positive articles. And that you would like to read more. Also show it to as many people as you can with the same sugestion of using addblock.
If you don't like it then thats fine too.
I think that she needs some encouragment for speaking out so that other jurnos will speak out as well if they see they are getting good feedback from us.

Show Polygon that people like her should be aknowledged while people like the ones who wrote the gamers are dead articles should be fired.

I really think that promoting good jurnalists is just as important as getting the bad ones fired.

I leave the decision up to you guys

[mordale]

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/4chan.org
damn.

[Sj]

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/4chan.org
damn.

Wow. That's quite the climb and drop-off.

[Deleted]

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/4chan.org
damn.

I'm pretty sure the naked leaked pictures have a lot to do with that though.

[Sj]

I'm pretty sure the naked leaked pictures have a lot to do with that though.

I'm sure it's a combination of the two. Mods did a good job of keeping the stolen pic topics deleted for the most part, though.

[OptimusDeadpool]

-snip-

Milo released the entire LW email list, put its crashing his site lol.


Removed link because there were phone numbers that slipped through.

[Calfredd]

Milo released the entire LW email list, put its crashing his site lol.

I wanted to post that but seeing the url, I didn't know how well received it would be.

Whoops, saw the edit so I also snippy snippied.

[Sj]

I know people want to dig through the information (there's a ton of it), but since there is personal information in those emails (namely phone numbers that didn't get cut out), we're going to ask that you guys refrain from sharing the link until Milo revises tomorrow. He took the page down until then anyways.

There are archive links out there, please don't post them here.

[OptimusDeadpool]

My apologies, didnt see the numbers in the first few emails. hopefully that will get edited.