Ghostcrawler on why WoW became a game for casuals

[Annu]

Someone posts "i heard that he did a bad thing, can someone enlighten me?", and no one replied for 6 hours (= no one cares in such a big forum). So why reply at all? Are his nerves so bad that he feels the urge to reply with a wall of text to a single person, questioning his previous accomplishments by hearsay?

I do not appreciate folks who talk so much about their previous Job in front of customers and that grandmother comment was also not very kind. I rate it as completely unprofessional and not having themselves under control.

Blizzard is probably lucky to be rid of that guy.

[Gilian]

I don't think that Celestalon ignored his feedback, he just didn't respond to it. Someone in his position wouldn't be so stupid. I know that I wouldn't respond to someone who feels like he must insult not only some random people who "got lucky by using an op spell" but also the devs by blaming them for giving "some retards" the ability to win by luck.

But he did respond to it. He could have ignored it, removed it, removed him from the forum or send him a warning but no he had to respond with that one lame sentence.
He also could have given him a warning told him how to give feedback and then respond to the usefull feedback but instead he posted one sentence that would obviously frustrate him even more.

[Deleted]

Just want to point out to the guy that said leveling to 1-60 in vanilla didn't take a long time, that he couldn't be more wrong. My first character took fucking 23 days /played to ding 60 and still remember the exact moment it happened (in Dire Maul).

That was without rushing a single bit, enjoying world pvp raids on Crossroads, just exploring and being a total noob in general, but still.

I might be remembering wrong but I think anything under 10 days was considered fast back then, but someone else might remember this better than me.

Right now I'm leveling an alt for the first time in ages, level 84 after aprox. 2 days /played.

Not getting into the discussion of what is better or if I love/hate vanilla or current state. Just saying get your facts straight.

[Deleted]

Yea, let's compare LoL to WoW for a second. Let's also forget that LoL is primarily a PvP game (with the only "PvE" being bots.). PvP games have a tendency of being more difficult, as you're playing against a real person, rather than some AI. At least compare the PvP, and leave PvE out of this (which is still a stupid idea, since each game just has different things you need to master to succeed in PvP)

Besides, the reason LoL is so popular is because any casual can pick it up. That's what bronze (and unranked) is for. They can make the game considerably more difficult, if they want to, and they'd end up with something like Dota 2. Why don't they? Because many people prefer the more laid-back playstyle you can have in League. League is an easy MOBA.

Also, let's stop saying vanilla was hard because everything took longer. It's not because the leveling was slower that it was harder. Same goes for attunements. They just took a long time. Grinding != Hard.

[Deletedaccount1]

I'm kind of glad he left but honestly, the damage has been done and the game is really going to take a long time to recover. It doesn't help that most of the dev team are still like him and actively contribute to running the game into the ground.

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He thinks he can ignore the etiquete and forum rules with his rant. thats either entitlement or elitism, or egoism or plainly being an asshole in my book. I just took the most usual case. And ignoring this whole fact makes you ignorant. So yeah, no. you don't know what you do so as you suggested, please stop writing here. or anywhere, really.

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I don't think that Celestalon ignored his feedback, he just didn't respond to it. Someone in his position wouldn't be so stupid. I know that I wouldn't respond to someone who feels like he must insult not only some random people who "got lucky by using an op spell" but also the devs by blaming them for giving "some retards" the ability to win by luck.

You're probably not even 2k so I don't why you think you can insult his criticisms. Blizzard needs to be cursed at so they get the message. The game is beyond typical courtesies with how broken parts of the game are.

[Deleted]

A dev of the most casual, simple, easy to play and accessible game in the world says another game is for casuals? This guy must be nuts.

[Unholyground]

I wouldn't even consider WoW casual, it is just more accessible than it ever was, trying to get someone new into the game without having to show them all the ropes was basically impossible in Vanilla and BC if you wanted to be really good at the game, showing someone the ropes is more for a game like Monster Hunter which is also a mega undertaking.

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A dev of the most casual, simple, easy to play and accessible game in the world says another game is for casuals? This guy must be nuts.

Easy to play hard to master is what LoL truly is.

[Deleted]

And yet LoL is the most played game in the world.

And they say challenge doesn't bring in and keep players. pfft

Don't forget that with LoL you can just install the game and hop right in to the action. With WoW you have to reach max level first, get a decent gear, find a decent guild and arena partners. WoW requires more effort to get in to the so called endgame. I'm sure you get what I'm after here.
During years WoW has become more accessible, especially at max levels. Even the lvling process has become a joke when compared to its past counterpart.

[nekobaka]

He thinks he can ignore the etiquete and forum rules with his rant. thats either entitlement or elitism, or egoism or plainly being an asshole in my book. I just took the most usual case. And ignoring this whole fact makes you ignorant. So yeah, no. you don't know what you do so as you suggested, please stop writing here. or anywhere, really.

Meanwhile others get to do that and even get favorable responses from the developers. The team has a general policy of remaining invisible on constructive discussions while have a habit of responding to volatile behavior which in turn conditions the playerbase in behaving that way. From my perspective it is Blizzards own fault for grooming their playerbase that way along with among the shittiest of the moderation that would make me prefer Biowares forums.

[Trix]

Isn't LoL easy to get into?

I know playing at the top level requires some skill, but I'm sure a 'grandmother' could easily get into LoL as easily as she could WoW.

Easy to play hard to master is what LoL truly is.

You can say that about loads of games. Almost any online game.

[Deleted]

Easy to play hard to master is what LoL truly is.

No it's not, LoL is easy at all skill level, Dota is another thing completely, I know Dota 2 competitive players that learned competitive LoL in like 3 days.

[Trix]

No it's not, LoL is easy at all skill level, Dota is another thing completely, I know Dota 2 competitive players that learned competitive LoL in like 3 days.

It's different when you are already a competitive moba player.

Yes, Dota 2 is harder to master.

[paralleluniverse]

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com...63353#49463353

Here's another quote from GC today:

I'm reading a lot of comments confusing accessibility with difficulty. Learning to play WoW is accessibility. Raiding is difficulty.

Source: https://twitter.com/OccupyGStreet/st...13395398057984

WoW is not just casual. WoW is simultaneously the most casual and most hardcore game around.

[Geckoo]

Isn't LoL easy to get into?

I know playing at the top level requires some skill, but I'm sure a 'grandmother' could easily get into LoL as easily as she could WoW.



You can say that about loads of games. Almost any online game.

Just because the nature of the game is easy doesn't mean that they design it to be easy. I mean, take the concept of a FPS, it's really simple and easy to grasp: aim and shoot, but that doesn't mean that they designed that concept with accesibility in mind, it's simply the outcome of the most natural design for that kind of game. With MOBA games the first block is to actually understand the goal of the game, once you get that... it's actually an 'easy to play' game, you choose a champion and simply use the skills, no need to think too much about strategy, team play or anything else... all those thing belong to the 'hard to master' part.

What GC says is really simple and even logic, don't now why some people are so upset about it.

[Deleted]

No it's not, LoL is easy at all skill level, Dota is another thing completely, I know Dota 2 competitive players that learned competitive LoL in like 3 days.

Then welcome in, you don't even have to go to Korea and compete with their CCCP big red machine esque type of training lifestyle, just learn how to market yourself and you wont even have to play at the very top in Europe to earn 600 000 euro / year. But nooooo, dota players wouldnt wanna do that right? Become economically independant for the rest of their lives because they care so much about the integrity of "le skill" Mmmm turn rates and ingame guides for build orders while having 2 skill shots or so in the entire game, such skill much depth.

[Arrowstormen]

PvP games aren't difficult the same way PvE games are, since the skill required to win in PvP is >the opponent's skill.

[Lime]

So he finds it refreshing that he doesn't have to work on one of the most casual MMOs, but now he's working on the most casual MOBA...?

It's possible that I'm just reading too much into it, but it seems that he's been taking a lot of shots at Blizzard recently. To me, it sounds bitter. But once again, I'm probably just reading too much into it.

[Mormolyce]

Got CM gold in 2012, didnt raid seriously i SoO patch so I pugged it. Thats how easy it is.
Oh here is me 2 manning gold challenge modes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0OZc-kKr0s

Molten core was ez, cleared it with people afk even. I was talking about sunwell, tempest keep, ICC prenerf, firefighter/yogg prenerf, black temple, SSC prefix.

Pugged HM Garrosh during progression did you? Sure haha.

I pugged ICC as well. You know the item upgrades are the same as the ICC buff yeah?

I'm sure that TBC content was hard, I heard some of the bosses even had mechanics.

[paralleluniverse]

PvP games aren't difficult the same way PvE games are, since the skill required to win in PvP is >the opponent's skill.

The relevant distinction is competitive games. Competitive games can in some sense be considered "infinitely difficult" if there's no limit to how good your opponents are. So for example, WoW arena is as hard as LoL, which is as hard as competitive PvE (racing for world firsts) and easy raids doesn't make racing for world firsts easier because its easier for your competition too.

[Unholyground]

It's different when you are already a competitive moba player.

Yes, Dota 2 is harder to master.

Dota 2 is also way less forgiving and much harder to make a come back in especially for new players, it is not learning friendly you need others to teach you the ropes if you truly want to succeed at it.