Help please with hc Malkorok

[dean771]

1. How is using unleash every 15 seconds more complicated than using ele blast every 12?

2. Yes there is because greater heal has less mana return and if you don't need the extra heal you are wasting mana that could be used for emergencies.

1. Every 15 seconds provided you will only cast lighting bolt and lava surge for the duration of the buff, we are talking about a raid group that forgets to cast immolate and has 60% flame shock uptime, Unleashed flame is a dps loss for them in any situation other then theory crafting

2. doubt you play a shaman if you think casting healing wave often for a fight as short as heroic mal is a good plan

[Senka]

Even if your raid learns how to not touch Essence of Y'shaarj orbs, the damage taken from Imploding Energy combined with Seismic Slam's damage 4 seconds later, including the fall damage, is VERY high. People don't seem to understand this and will still die, or nearly die, even with a decent Ancient Miasma shield if they don't use any damage reduction ability or don't have good additional absorption like Power Word: Shield or Illuminated Healing.

Until people learn their class (and EVERY class has defensive abilities, so don't let anyone bullshit you, especially those classes), you will not pass this. Sorry.
Btw, I understand that not every class has something to use on every single Imploding Energy if they're soaking every time they go out, but with any luck they won't need to do that.

[Illana]

1. Every 15 seconds provided you will only cast lighting bolt and lava surge for the duration of the buff, we are talking about a raid group that forgets to cast immolate and has 60% flame shock uptime, Unleashed flame is a dps loss for them in any situation other then theory crafting

2. doubt you play a shaman if you think casting healing wave often for a fight as short as heroic mal is a good plan

1. Fine

2. Why not if there's no damage? To be honest greater wave is terrible because in 99% of cases surge is better as it will crit giving mana return plus more healing on average.

[GrumpySanta]

How can you be level 90, played enough to get the legendary cloak and not know that you need to use immolate as a warlock? You should seriously ask Emberdrake if he bought his account.

[Varabently]

As a preface, my guild just killed this boss last night, albeit we did it on our first night of attempts. I think we did pretty well, so here's what we did:

1. 2 healer (druid and disc), 2 melee, rest ranged obviously, warrior/druid tanks
2. Two melee communicated who would get the melee puddle
3. Tanks swapped at 15 stacks of the debuff (tank with the boss also taunted the add; melee cleaved it)
4. Ranged has to spread out and stay spread out to soak puddles
5. You cannot miss a puddle.
6. DPS all need to be around 300-350k. (Edit: It's been pointed out that this isn't the literal DPS requirement to hit enrage. I wasn't trying to say that, but point taken; apparently it's about 250k)
7. No one can get hit with the breath
8. Used hunter, ret paladin, and feral to soak orbs during blood rage
9. Cycled cooldowns on tank (one with no debuff) during blood rage. That means ret paladin uses hand of sac x2, disc bubble, shield wall, etc. At least 2 cooldowns up at all times.

I think that's really all we did. Took us 12 attempts I believe. It's really just an execution fight. You have to do each mechanic without failing. If you can get through blood rage with everyone up, then you are good to go. After that it's smooth sailing. Our first attempt through blood rage like this was our kill attempt. Other various failing (dumb ret paladin missing puddle *cough*) caused wipes that were avoidable. It's a very mechanic-driven fight. Everything you can do wrong can wipe you. I guess that's pretty common for heroics though.

[Deja Thoris]

6. DPS all need to be around 300-350k.

Maths is hard... To beat the enrage timer you need raid dps of 1.74mill dps. 6 dps (and 2 tanks equivalent to 1 dps) thats a dps check of 250k per person. Thats a far cry from your 300-350k estimate.

[GrumpySanta]

6. DPS all need to be around 300-350k.

You do know if that was true, SoO would not be cleared as fast as it did, you may think that doing 350K dps is "easy peasy" now (and it is) but back when people were rocking a mix of heroic ToT and normal SoO gear, ALL dps having to do 350k dps would be ridiculous to ask for (due to the ammount of movement required to soak etc).

[Larynx]

Maths is hard... To beat the enrage timer you need raid dps of 1.74mill dps. 6 dps (and 2 tanks equivalent to 1 dps) thats a dps check of 250k per person. Thats a far cry from your 300-350k estimate.

Enrage timers are not the primary reason you want more DPS.

More DPS = Shorter fight length = Less chance of mistakes
More DPS = Shorter fight length = Less strain on the healers = You can drop a healer for another DPS (see how this one work outs?)
More DPS = Shorter fight length = Less phases, or outright skip phases. See Garrosh or Iron Juggernaut. Siegecrafter is another great example.

More DPS is always better. Being content with meeting the literal minimum requirement for a berserk timer is a terrible raid. There's a reason people single heal Garrosh 10m for progression (hint: it's not the enrage).

You do know if that was true, SoO would not be cleared as fast as it did, you may think that doing 350K dps is "easy peasy" now (and it is) but back when people were rocking a mix of heroic ToT and normal SoO gear, ALL dps having to do 350k dps would be ridiculous to ask for (due to the ammount of movement required to soak etc).

Skill is the difference here. If a raid couldn't clear the first boss in the time it took another raid to clear the entire raid, the first raid isn't gonna get by with the bare minimum.

[Illana]

Maths is hard... To beat the enrage timer you need raid dps of 1.74mill dps. 6 dps (and 2 tanks equivalent to 1 dps) thats a dps check of 250k per person. Thats a far cry from your 300-350k estimate.

also your tank wont survive a second blood rage and i think berserk is 1minute after that happens.

Soft enrage is second blood rage which is about 5min 40

[Deja Thoris]

also your tank wont survive a second blood rage and i think berserk is 1minute after that happens.

Soft enrage is second blood rage which is about 5min 40

Lol what?

Paladins (which they have) can solo each bloodrage with no externals and no need of the protectors trink. What you are saying is just wrong.

I'm not disputing "more dps" solves or avoids many issues but to say they "need" 300k - 350k is flat out false.

[desert-wind]

Lol what?

Paladins (which they have) can solo each bloodrage with no externals and no need of the protectors trink. What you are saying is just wrong.

I'm not disputing "more dps" solves or avoids many issues but to say they "need" 300k - 350k is flat out false.

Not gonna tell you that they can't, but based on their tanks useage of abilities their paladin would struggle to soak the first bloodrage, let alone the second.

[Illana]

Lol what?

Paladins (which they have) can solo each bloodrage with no externals and no need of the protectors trink. What you are saying is just wrong.

I'm not disputing "more dps" solves or avoids many issues but to say they "need" 300k - 350k is flat out false.

i guess thats true since they overgear the encounter

[Tech614]

i guess thats true since they overgear the encounter

Uhh back when I undergeared the encounter, a 2nd blood rage was easily survivable on my Monk.

The blood rage is a joke on 10 man. A complete joke, talking about not being able to survive a 2nd one is laughable to me.

You are talking about people over gearing the encounter but saying the 2nd blood rage in the soft enrage? LOL, pretty much tells me you never killed the fight before your entire raid was 570+. He was killed for weeks by people getting a 2nd blood rage due to still being an average of 560-565ish.

[Tradu]

Many thanks for all the replies - I've done some research on problems from other websites also, and it does seem like the orbs are the biggest problem for us - we know what we should be working on as a team now, and some members individually also. Hopefully we'll put what we've learned here into practise and start to see some progression next week - very much appreciated

Try having the hunter, monk DPS and shadowpriest be the only ones soaking up orbs(maybe the prot paladin if the monk tank is solotanking Bloodrage), as they all have good ways of reducing the damage(Deterrence, Diffuse Magic/Zen Meditation/Touch of Karma, Dispersion).

[Illana]

Uhh back when I undergeared the encounter, a 2nd blood rage was easily survivable on my Monk.

The blood rage is a joke on 10 man. A complete joke, talking about not being able to survive a 2nd one is laughable to me.

You are talking about people over gearing the encounter but saying the 2nd blood rage in the soft enrage? LOL, pretty much tells me you never killed the fight before your entire raid was 570+. He was killed for weeks by people getting a 2nd blood rage due to still being an average of 560-565ish.

that's a monk though. Zen med cheesing was too stronk on that fight.

[Varabently]

Maths is hard... To beat the enrage timer you need raid dps of 1.74mill dps. 6 dps (and 2 tanks equivalent to 1 dps) thats a dps check of 250k per person. Thats a far cry from your 300-350k estimate.

I'm just saying that's what our DPS were at and we killed it after 12 attempts. Fair enough I didn't measure the literal dps we would need.

- - - Updated - - -

You do know if that was true, SoO would not be cleared as fast as it did, you may think that doing 350K dps is "easy peasy" now (and it is) but back when people were rocking a mix of heroic ToT and normal SoO gear, ALL dps having to do 350k dps would be ridiculous to ask for (due to the ammount of movement required to soak etc).

I certainly don't think 350k dps is easy peasy. I can only do about 300, maybe 310k so I'm not sure why you think I think that. I'm just saying the faster it's over, the more chances are all your dps will be alive and such. Sure if you want to hit the enrage you can do lower dps, but every time a smash or a puddle happens there's a chance someone will make a mistake.

I was basically just describing the circumstances under which my group killed him. The OP is clearly struggling, so I was just giving them some parameters that should help.

[Deleted]

We had issues on Malkorok HC and we fixed it mainly by telling our pala-tank to increase his Shield o/t Righteous uptime - that improved his survivability considerably.

In turn, he could then solo the blood rage phase which,
in turn, made it possible for ppl to walk around and clean up the orbs during that blood rage phase which,
in turn, gave us room to move in P1 which,
in turn, created space enough for ppl to get to puddles in time without losing their shields which,
in turn, made it possible for us to kill him.

Get your pala tank to trust his healers more and waste less of his gcds on self heals (i think 50% of his healing is self-heals on your best try)

good luck!

[LogixTN]

Solo tanking, assigned players for puddle soaking and avoiding random orb soaking is the key. Even with flaws in rotations etc, still doable with that gear you have.

May pay my account someday and give you a hand Merl

/Logix / Guesswho

[Illana]

We had issues on Malkorok HC and we fixed it mainly by telling our pala-tank to increase his Shield o/t Righteous uptime - that improved his survivability considerably.

In turn, he could then solo the blood rage phase which,
in turn, made it possible for ppl to walk around and clean up the orbs during that blood rage phase which,
in turn, gave us room to move in P1 which,
in turn, created space enough for ppl to get to puddles in time without losing their shields which,
in turn, made it possible for us to kill him.

Get your pala tank to trust his healers more and waste less of his gcds on self heals (i think 50% of his healing is self-heals on your best try)

good luck!

............clearly has no idea how paladin tanking works

EF should have 100% uptime on paladin and it's one of paladins main survival tools. With vengeance EF ticks for like half your hp if done correctly with 3 stacks of bastion.

[Deleted]

............clearly has no idea how paladin tanking works

EF should have 100% uptime on paladin and it's one of paladins main survival tools. With vengeance EF ticks for like half your hp if done correctly with 3 stacks of bastion.

If you think EF has to have 100% uptime (and you think 3 stacks of BoG is what somebody that isn't cheesing the 4-set and WoG glyph should be using it with), then you're the one that has zero clue about how paladin tanking works. Please stop opining on what paladins should or should not be doing and leave that to people who actually have the remotest clue as to how the class works.

EF should not have 100% uptime; certainly even less so when the player in question barely has 30% haste. It should be refreshed at high vengeance and 5 stacks of BoG, barring a situation where he is about to go splat and can save himself by using it prematurely. Anything else is an unnecessary waste, and 75-80% uptime should still be relatively achievable - but having any uptime at all is only worth it if EF is actually applied with good levels of vengeance and an appropriate amount of BoG stacks.

If your tank can't grasp how to use EF properly with BoG, then he should simply ditch the talent for SS, as it will be doing more harm than good.