Simulationcraft results for WoD

[Deleted]

Wait and sequence not functional how? Sequence has a .. perhaps non-intuitive behavior, where if a higher priority action becomes ready while you execute a sequence, that higher priority action is used instead. If you fully want to commit to a sequence, try out the new (and potentially experimental) strict_sequence.

How is wait not functional? There are very few ways hat it could honestly be broken it seems, basically it makes you "cast" wait for however many seconds you specify.

I tried to use both sequence and strict sequence, but I never got past the programming stage, the documentation I found to it was rather short. I also copied a working sequence of some druid one or two addons ago and switched the skills, but no success either.

And
actions+=/wait,sec=1,if=buff.subterfuge.remains=1.1
does not trigger
actions+=/wait,sec=buff.subterfuge.remains-0.1,if=buff.subterfuge.remains>1.1&buff.subterfuge.remains<1.6&time>6
either...
I probably tried some more variations with it, but none actually placed the following ambush at 0.1s left.

@Nalira: Ryme pretty much covered your questions to my findings. I am kinda worried that hemo is a dps loss at any circumstance. What's the point of it then? Only when in front?

[Oggiva]

Hemo is also useful for target switching. I might be mathing wrongly here, but my numbers tell me that backstab scales better than hemo with attack power, and it obviously scales better with weapon damage.

dps per attack power:                        1/3.5      (taken from live. Needs to be confirmed for lvl 100.)

+damage per attack power:                    1.8/3.5    (attack speed of dagger.)

backstab formula:                            1.6*weapon damage
backstab expanded:                           1.6*(1.8/3.5)
backstab damage per attack power:            0.823

hemo formula:                                weapon damage*0.4*1.4 + 0.42*attack power          (slow weapons actually do more hemo damage, since 2.6/1.8 > 1.4
hemo expanded:                               (1.8/3.5)*0.4*1.4 + 0.42*1
hemo damage per attack power:                0.708

backstab damage per attack power / energy:   0.823/35 = 0.02351          (so backstab*energy per attack power)
hemo damage per attack power / energy:       0.702/30 = 0.0236           (and hemo*energy per attack power)

Turned out hemo scaled slightly better (0.382 % better) when I factored energy into the equation as well.

I think it would be possible to add hemo to the list if you make sure to use it instead of a backstab shortly before a trinket proc, or possibly when there is no buff up at all (trinket, find weakness, weapon enchant etc.). This way you can gain some from the dot the same way garrote is good at the pull because an ambush wouldn't benefit from all the procs that happen at the start.

[Deleted]

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17M.html

When did that happen? Combat is now in front of Sub with 41658 dps and apparently they use a different profile (imo less optimized) than the newest one we came up with. Sub also gained much compared to their earlier sims. 41263 dps today, a couple of days ago something like 39k.

Most notably though is the WW Dps increase by about 4k.

I see they use version 8 now, last I used was 6.


Also I went for some backstab vs hemo sims, here are the results:
just backstab 41181 dps
backstab 360 DpEnergy
Hemo n/a DpEnergy

keep hemo up 40762 dps
backstab 353.34 DpEnergy
Hemo 330.23 DpEnergy

use only when not clipping and no buff whatsoever 41049 dps
backstab 365.23 DpEnergy
Hemo 312.7 DpEnergy

Using hemo smartly was a gain over using keeping hemo up, but still inferior to using no hemo at all.

[Deleted]

Empowered Bandit's Guile supposedly adds 20% to Deep Insight. Tooltip still shows 30%, anyone know if its bugged?

[Xavv]

Are these stat values at all accurate for Assassination for pre-raiding gear levels?

Been using MS enchants for Assassination, but Mastery shows as being much higher, even Crit. Wondering if I should switch.

[Deleted]

I tried to use both sequence and strict sequence, but I never got past the programming stage, the documentation I found to it was rather short. I also copied a working sequence of some druid one or two addons ago and switched the skills, but no success either.

And
actions+=/wait,sec=1,if=buff.subterfuge.remains=1.1
does not trigger
actions+=/wait,sec=buff.subterfuge.remains-0.1,if=buff.subterfuge.remains>1.1&buff.subterfuge.remains<1.6&time>6
either...
I probably tried some more variations with it, but none actually placed the following ambush at 0.1s left.

So, sequences. The wiki has quite a bit of documentation on the normal sequence, but in essence .. Normal sequence is a separate action that does the abilities given for the sequence in that order. It will however not "fully commit" to doing the sequence .. if there is a higher priority action available, it will be used. If after that you continue the sequence, it will be continued from where it was previously left off. Note that once a sequence is used, it needs to be reset, or it will never be done again during that iteration.

Strict sequences are a new thing that got added a while ago to try to help people to do proper "sequences of actions". Strict sequence fully commits the actor to the sequence. Once the strict sequence has started, it will be fully performed (unless for some reason one of the sequence members becomes unavailable, and a bunch of other conditions).

"actions+=/wait,sec=1,if=buff.subterfuge.remains=1.1 " will be very impossible to get to work, as buff.subterfuge.remains=1.1 means it's only ready on that exact timestamp. Unlikely that the Rogue will be able to be "ready" on that exact timestamp in the simulator, due to how the simulator actors are implemented.

The latter one is a bit surprising that it does not work, but there's still the GCDs messing up things. I'll investigate ..

[Shivvalry]

I am a long time reader, but I had a question that leads me to actually posting.

Now that Warlords has gone live, have you looked into the conquest PvP trinkets? Are they still highly valued, or were they indeed nerfed? I am hoping that I will not need to farm arenas on the day that the raids release.

[Deleted]

So, sequences. The wiki has quite a bit of documentation on the normal sequence, but in essence .. Normal sequence is a separate action that does the abilities given for the sequence in that order. It will however not "fully commit" to doing the sequence .. if there is a higher priority action available, it will be used. If after that you continue the sequence, it will be continued from where it was previously left off. Note that once a sequence is used, it needs to be reset, or it will never be done again during that iteration.

Strict sequences are a new thing that got added a while ago to try to help people to do proper "sequences of actions". Strict sequence fully commits the actor to the sequence. Once the strict sequence has started, it will be fully performed (unless for some reason one of the sequence members becomes unavailable, and a bunch of other conditions).

I read all of that here: https://code.google.com/p/simulation...ists#Sequences
The problem I had was that I was unable to write a sequence that would be successfully translated by simcraft to actually start simming. Every time I got some unable to run sim because of this line error and pointing at the sequence.
I found the error with the wait line. It was spanned too narrow. Now I increased the timespan where a wait is triggered.

rogue="Rogue_Subtlety_T17M"
level=100
race=blood_elf
role=attack
position=back
talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#cb!1000011
glyphs=energy/hemorrhaging_veins
spec=subtlety

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.

actions.precombat=flask,type=greater_draenic_agility_flask
actions.precombat+=/food,type=calamari_crepes
actions.precombat+=/apply_poison,lethal=deadly
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/potion,name=draenic_agility
actions.precombat+=/stealth
actions.precombat+=/premeditation
actions.precombat+=/slice_and_dice
actions.precombat+=/honor_among_thieves,cooldown=2.2,cooldown_stddev=0.1

# Executed every time the actor is available.

actions=potion,name=draenic_agility,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<40|buff.shadow_dance.up&buff.lubdub.up
actions+=/kick
actions+=/use_item,slot=trinket2,if=buff.shadow_dance.up
actions+=/shadow_reflection,if=buff.shadow_dance.up
actions+=/blood_fury,if=buff.shadow_dance.up
actions+=/berserking,if=buff.shadow_dance.up
actions+=/arcane_torrent,if=energy<60&buff.shadow_dance.up
actions+=/slice_and_dice,if=(buff.slice_and_dice.remains<10.8)&buff.slice_and_dice.remains<target.time_to_die&combo_points=((target.time_to_die-buff.slice_and_dice.remains)%6)+1
actions+=/premeditation,if=combo_points<=4&!(buff.shadow_dance.up&energy>100&combo_points>1)&!buff.subterfuge.up|(buff.subterfuge.up&debuff.find_weakness.up)
actions+=/pool_resource,for_next=1
actions+=/garrote,if=!dot.garrote.ticking&time<1
actions+=/wait,sec=buff.subterfuge.remains-0.1,if=buff.subterfuge.remains>0.5&buff.subterfuge.remains<1.6&time>6
actions+=/pool_resource,for_next=1
actions+=/ambush,if=combo_points<5|(talent.anticipation.enabled&anticipation_charges<3)&(time<1.2|buff.shadow_dance.up|time>5)
actions+=/pool_resource,for_next=1,extra_amount=50
actions+=/shadow_dance,if=energy>=50&buff.stealth.down&buff.vanish.down&debuff.find_weakness.down|(buff.bloodlust.up&(dot.hemorrhage.ticking|dot.garrote.ticking|dot.rupture.ticking))
actions+=/pool_resource,for_next=1,extra_amount=50
actions+=/vanish,if=talent.shadow_focus.enabled&energy>=45&energy<=75&combo_points<=3&buff.shadow_dance.down&buff.master_of_subtlety.down&debuff.find_weakness.down
actions+=/pool_resource,for_next=1,extra_amount=90
actions+=/vanish,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&energy>=90&combo_points<=3&buff.shadow_dance.down&buff.master_of_subtlety.down&debuff.find_weakness.down
actions+=/marked_for_death,if=combo_points=0
actions+=/run_action_list,name=generator,if=talent.anticipation.enabled&anticipation_charges<4&buff.slice_and_dice.up&dot.rupture.remains>2&(buff.slice_and_dice.remains<6|dot.rupture.remains<4)
actions+=/run_action_list,name=finisher,if=combo_points=5
actions+=/run_action_list,name=generator,if=combo_points<4|(combo_points=4&cooldown.honor_among_thieves.remains>1&energy>70-energy.regen)|talent.anticipation.enabled
actions+=/run_action_list,name=pool

actions.finisher=rupture,cycle_targets=1,if=(!ticking|remains<duration*0.3)&active_enemies<=3&(cooldown.death_from_above.remains>0|!talent.death_from_above.enabled)
actions.finisher+=/slice_and_dice,if=(buff.slice_and_dice.remains<10.8)&buff.slice_and_dice.remains<target.time_to_die
actions.finisher+=/death_from_above
actions.finisher+=/crimson_tempest,if=(active_enemies>=3&dot.crimson_tempest_dot.ticks_remain<=2&combo_points=5)|active_enemies>=5&(cooldown.death_from_above.remains>0|!talent.death_from_above.enabled)
actions.finisher+=/eviscerate,if=active_enemies<4|(active_enemies>3&dot.crimson_tempest_dot.ticks_remain>=2)&(cooldown.death_from_above.remains>0|!talent.death_from_above.enabled)
actions.finisher+=/run_action_list,name=pool

actions.generator=run_action_list,name=pool,if=buff.master_of_subtlety.down&buff.shadow_dance.down&debuff.find_weakness.down&(energy+cooldown.shadow_dance.remains*energy.regen<80|energy+cooldown.vanish.remains*energy.regen<60)
actions.generator+=/fan_of_knives,if=active_enemies>1
actions.generator+=/shuriken_toss,if=energy<65&energy.regen<16
actions.generator+=/backstab
actions.generator+=/run_action_list,name=pool

actions.pool=preparation,if=!buff.vanish.up&cooldown.vanish.remains>60

head=poisoners_helmet,id=115572,bonus_id=567
neck=engineers_grounded_gorget,id=113892,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_mastery
shoulders=poisoners_spaulders,id=115574,bonus_id=567
back=drape_of_the_dark_hunt,id=113971,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_mastery
chest=poisoners_tunic,id=115570,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_shattered_stalactites,id=113935,bonus_id=567
hands=poisoners_gloves,id=115571,bonus_id=567
waist=conductors_multipocket_girdle,id=113964,bonus_id=567
legs=shattering_smash_leggings,id=113989,bonus_id=567
feet=treads_of_the_dark_hunt,id=113974,bonus_id=567
finger1=spellbound_runic_band_of_unrelenting_slaughter,id=118307,enchant=gift_of_mastery
finger2=unexploded_explosive_shard,id=113877,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_mastery
trinket1=scales_of_doom,id=113612,bonus_id=567
trinket2=beating_heart_of_the_mountain,id=113931,bonus_id=567
main_hand=oregorgers_acidetched_gutripper,id=113874,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_the_frostwolf
off_hand=oregorgers_acidetched_gutripper,id=113874,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_the_frostwolf

# Gear Summary
# gear_agility=3542
# gear_stamina=4478
# gear_crit_rating=869
# gear_haste_rating=338
# gear_mastery_rating=1337
# gear_armor=1147
# gear_multistrike_rating=1517
# gear_versatility_rating=122
# set_bonus=tier17_2pc=1
# set_bonus=tier17_4pc=1

41180 dps

that is even with shadow focus now.

[Imotbh]

From what I've seen so far, it's still Assa > Sub > Combat in ST, with Combat largely ahead in AE, as it as been said earlier. Wait & see for raid testing a bit more I guess.

[Puffah]

Am I correct in believing Dancing Steel is better than Mark of the Shattered Hand until Mark of the Frostwolf becomes available?

[Deleted]

Been playing flat out since launch and starting to grind out gold CMs now.

Played all 3 specs 5 man and Combat *seems* to blow the other 2 away sadly. On demand instant aoe just beats out poison/rupture/crimson tempest back end that the other 2 put out.

Along with Lemon Zest working with instant poison (making energy regen not so bad) and blade flurry + mark of death on the squishies, im topping dps on aoe + single target on bosses (warlock, hunter, BrM monk + Disc/holy).

I started as sub for the first couple of days strongly wanting to believe :<

Curious as to how others are finding it at the moment!

[Feali]

I enjoy all three speccs the same: I don't.
Sub is just maintenance as soon as you get enough multistrike and bosses still turning to cast is highly infuriating. Yes.
Assa is boring and you get 90%+ Envenom uptime without pooling. No interesting gameplay.
Haven't touched Combat because of SoO trauma.

@Puffah: Someone in a guild said he did 7k DPS more just by switching to Shattered Hand over Dancing Steel. It does around 10% of the damage.

[Deleted]

Been playing flat out since launch and starting to grind out gold CMs now.

Played all 3 specs 5 man and Combat *seems* to blow the other 2 away sadly. On demand instant aoe just beats out poison/rupture/crimson tempest back end that the other 2 put out.

Along with Lemon Zest working with instant poison (making energy regen not so bad) and blade flurry + mark of death on the squishies, im topping dps on aoe + single target on bosses (warlock, hunter, BrM monk + Disc/holy).

I started as sub for the first couple of days strongly wanting to believe :<

Curious as to how others are finding it at the moment!

Are you topping the charts single target as combat? Really? That's surprising. Even when compared to say assassination singe target?

[Pathal]

I doubt anyone would gain 7k DPS from it. Some math:

3.5 RPPM, scales with haste and has bad luck prevention. Deals 1500 immediately and leaves a 750 DPS dot for 6s.

So assuming 0 haste to scale with right now:

uptime = 1.1307 * (1 - e^(-1 * 1 * 3.5 * 6 / 60)) = 0.333909
0.333909 * 750 = 250.43175 DPS from the bleed
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1.1307+*+%281+-+e%5E%28-1+*+1+*+3.5+*+6+%2F+60%29%29

frequency = 1 * 1.1307 * 3.5 / 60 = 0.0659575
0.0659575 * 1500 = 98.93625 DPS from the direct bleed damage
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1+*+1.1307+*+3.5+%2F+60

Total: 98.93625+250.43175 = 349.368 DPS per enchant

Lets remember that it scales with haste though! A hypothetical 20% haste turns this into:

uptime = 1.1307 * (1 - e^(-1 * 1 * 3.5 * 6 / 60)) = 0.387777
0.387777 * 750 = 290.83275 DPS from the bleed
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1.1307+*+%281+-+e%5E%28-1+*+1.2+*+3.5+*+6+%2F+60%29%29

frequency = 1.2 * 1.1307 * 3.5 / 60 = 0.079149
0.079149 * 1500 = 118.7235 DPS from the direct bleed damage
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1.2+*+1.1307+*+3.5+%2F+60

Total: 118.7235+290.83275 = 409.55625 DPS per enchant

7k DPS sounds out of reach unless you're impossibly lucky. But it still has a pretty high budget for it's reagent cost. For reference, Mark of Warsong has like 36% uptime and no haste scaling, which means an average of 550 haste per proc lends somewhere over 198 haste on average. 198 haste is worth somewhere between 400 and 500 DPS depending on the spec at t17m, but less than 400 before then.

TL;DR: Mark of the Shattered Hand is pretty decent. No idea if it will stay as strong into the final chunks of content.

[Imotbh]

Are you topping the charts single target as combat? Really? That's surprising. Even when compared to say assassination singe target?

I agree. The difference in ST isn't huge but there's still one in favor of Assa.

[Ryme]

Sorry I haven't been updating this, but with the launch and my work kicking up a gear it's taking a side bench for a few days, be back on top of things soon.

[Deleted]

I agree. The difference in ST isn't huge but there's still one in favor of Assa.

I feel the same - used all 3 specs yesterday in heroics and couldn't really decide which one to go for. Seems like they did a great job balancing them, there is no clear winner.

In my opinion:
single target -> Assa (kinda close to Sub)
AoE -> Combat (obviously)
middle of the road -> Sub (maybe missing multistrike for better single target? was kinda disappointed about this)

I will settle with Assa for now I assume.

[Deleted]

at the moment i can only play combat because blizz wants it... i dont got any daggers so far and 1x hc wf axe and an hc fist weapon

[daspels]

I have not tried combat in lvl 100 yet cause im enjoying the jesus out of sub. I really hope It keeps being better then combat and assa though I think ill end up with sub/combat when HM opens up.

[Deleted]

In terms of HC dungeons I'm ilvl 634 now and I've played Assassination and Combat quite a bit. There's no competition quite frankly. You will go combat if you wanna do challenge modes etc, otherwise you'll be carried.