[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Deleted]

Ok 1st part, done.
Lets check the other one now

ok seraphim done, EMPS done, need to adjust values (flat seraphim values in particular) then we're fine.

[Deleted]

No, the following macro will entirely automate the talent at no cost at all if they were off global cooldown. In that case, there would be no difference between that talent and a passive talent. Furthermore, those not macro'ing the ability run the risk at preforming less then optimal which a macro can give for free. All of these are strict no-nos in blizzards design policy. Finally, EmpS in its current state have been balanced with the global cooldown cost in mind. Removing said cost would be a massive buff.

/castsequence judgment, seal of righteousness, judgment, seal of insight

You wouldn't use that macro if seals were off the GCD. If they were (and you need to DPS) you'd use Judgment of Righteousness > wait for Judge CD > SoI + Judgment of Insight > SoR until you have to swap to refresh SoI buff. And the complete opposite if you want to sit in SoI.

[OrcsRLame]

So, with BRF right around the corner, does anyone have anything resembling a BiS list yet? I'm trying to make my own but I'm fairly sure I'll fuck up which non-tier piece I should use.

[Emrus]

You wouldn't use that macro if seals were off the GCD. If they were (and you need to DPS) you'd use Judgment of Righteousness > wait for Judge CD > SoI + Judgment of Insight > SoR until you have to swap to refresh SoI buff. And the complete opposite if you want to sit in SoI.

That is very true. But, my post was mostly aimed at the 50% percentile and below, as in the general bunk of players.

So, with BRF right around the corner, does anyone have anything resembling a BiS list yet? I'm trying to make my own but I'm fairly sure I'll fuck up which non-tier piece I should use.

BiS lists aren't that relevant anymore due to sockets and wf. One important thing the remember during BRF looting is that we wont know if tier pieces have sockets and/or wf until after it has been allocated. This means it can be a very risky business to try to upgrade a socketed offset piece to a set piece.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

That is very true. But, my post was mostly aimed at the 50% percentile and below, as in the general bunk of players.

I'm pretty sure that anybody able to find this thread is good enough to do at least 70th percentile, if not more

[Emrus]

I'm pretty sure that anybody able to find this thread is good enough to do at least 70th percentile, if not more

Again, the macro posted was not intended as a self-help for already competent players. But, rather as an addendum to whether blizzard would consider taking seals off cooldown. And I still hold that such a change would entice the vast majority of prot paladins (but hopefully none of the readers here) to macro their way out of gameplay instead of playing. And such a change would against blizzard policy on macros.

[Deleted]

Had a lot of headaches over comparing trinkets, so I made this to make it easier to generate a config when I want to try out something new. Sorry for the broken link, haven't reached the post limit.

simc.axel.pw/trinket.html

Creates a configuration for all possible combinations of two trinkets in the first text area.
Not sure if this is automated somewhere in SimulationCraft already, if so, please tell. Otherwise, hope someone finds it useful!

[steenkie]

Again, the macro posted was not intended as a self-help for already competent players. But, rather as an addendum to whether blizzard would consider taking seals off cooldown. And I still hold that such a change would entice the vast majority of prot paladins (but hopefully none of the readers here) to macro their way out of gameplay instead of playing. And such a change would against blizzard policy on macros.

My post was not about how players would respond, but rather, would taking it off the GCD buff it enough to bring it to the forefront. Players will always maximize and there are plenty of macro's available for ES as is. Use of macros wouldn't change simply by taking ES off the GCD because players are already using macro's for it. At that point, and it gets to my question, would the extra gcd's for HP generation be enough to improve TMI and DPS for ES builds?

[Theck]

The only macro you would need for Empowered Seals (assuming seals were taken off of the GCD) is

/castsequence Seal of Righteousness, Seal of Insight

Since you'd always want to be swapping back and forth, that would be sufficient. Combine that with a weakaura or two to alert you at the ideal moment to switch, and you're done.

At that point, they're basically passive buffs that add two meaningless (in the sense that they are completely independent of the rotation) button presses every 30 seconds. That's why I doubt they will ever go in that direction (off-GCD) with seals.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, i believe the issues was that some of the tank attacks in SimS, were coded in to be reduced by avoidance, so it will look stronger than it should, and leech does't really account for overheal, so also prob stronger than it should.

To elaborate on this: the "aoe_tanks=1" option used to turn the spell into an aoe spell so that it hit all tanks. That also meant that those spells were suddenly mitigated by the avoidance tertiary, so if you go and sim it you'll find that it's better than many of our secondary stats because it's applying to all damage.

I finally had time yesterday to code the overhaul of the enemy_t action system. Now, the "aoe_tanks=1" option causes the enemy to spawn an individual single-target attack for each tank. So for example, the boss' DPET chart might look like this:



So now, none of those attacks would be mitigated by avoidance. Note that this hasn't made it to a release build yet, since I literally pushed the changes last night after raid.

The downside is that with this system, you'll find that avoidance has zero value if you sim against a TMI boss because it only does single-target attacks. I'm contemplating what I want to do about this - one option is to fudge the DoT an aoe so that avoidance works against about 25% of the damage. Another is to replace the DoT with an instant-cast spell_aoe, though this has other issues.

The more likely option is that I'll blithely ignore it since it's a tertiary stat that only works against certain bosses anyway. It's simple enough to add a raid damage event to a sim and tweak the amount of damage it does to approximate a given encounter if we actually want a stat weight for avoidance.

[celinamuna]

If only ppl who weren't theck, but who love to argue would actually make those custom bosses.

[Vaeladin]

Now that they removed all the fancy stuff , they should ATLEAST bring back battle healer so we can contribute more to the raid

Yes please.

[DrTerrier]

I feel so bad in raid really. It´s like brewmasters just do our job better. Better heals, much better dps with half of the effort required, plus very controlled dmg intake.

Highly doubt they´ll ever touch battle healer again. Its not in the tank profile for this expack for tanks to provide raid healing I thought.

[Kazuchika]

I want my Devo back ;_;

[celinamuna]

Tbh i wouldn't care about raid utility/stuff if my survival didn't depend so much on healers, SoO tank model (from paladin) pov was amazing. (Most of em were, except for DKs imo)

And DKs already have a good one atm, if only they could combine those 2 and not make dependent on having a hpal/disc tank healing.

[Vaeladin]

We were a little too crazy in MoP. For the latter part of SoO I didn't even really need a healer. We should be self-sustainable to a point, but not completely.

I just wish the devs would stop removing class flavor. If they keep heading down this direction all the classes are just going to feel the same.

[celinamuna]

We were a little too crazy in MoP. For the latter part of SoO I didn't even really need a healer. We should be self-sustainable to a point, but not completely.

I just wish the devs would stop removing class flavor. If they keep heading down this direction all the classes are just going to feel the same.

Except you did, just not the "if you look away from me for 5 sec on bracken, i die" model.

[Haioden]

Just thought of these wanted to share since right now the talents need something more fun and rewarding.

Seraphim 30 second cooldown, 15 second duration

Summon a flying Angelic Being to protect you. Reducing damage taken by X%. Using SoTR increases its duration for 3 seconds (up to 6 seconds) using EF or WOG sacrifices the protector shielding you for x% multiplied by duration left.

Holy Shield
Passive- increasing your block chance by 15%, and allows you to block spells.
on use- Throw your shield into the ground. Allies standing behind the shield will take 10% less damage for 5 seconds. Reducing your block chance by 15% for 5 seconds. Cooldown 3 min.

[Chivolence]

Just thought of these wanted to share since right now the talents need something more fun and rewarding.

Seraphim 30 second cooldown, 15 second duration

Summon a flying Angelic Being to protect you. Reducing damage taken by X%. Using SoTR increases its duration for 3 seconds (up to 6 seconds) using EF or WOG sacrifices the protector shielding you for x% multiplied by duration left.

Holy Shield
Passive- increasing your block chance by 15%, and allows you to block spells.
on use- Throw your shield into the ground. Allies standing behind the shield will take 10% less damage for 5 seconds. Reducing your block chance by 15% for 5 seconds. Cooldown 3 min.

Seems as though first one could be somewhat implemented into our guardian or something idk, sounds nifty

The holy shield though what counts as 'behind' the shield? I know the first boss in Auchindoun has a mechanic very similar to this but it makes sense for that because the damage radiates in a wave from him, it has direction, but what about lets say Brackenspore and infesting spores? It isn't really radiating from anywhere so you can't really get 'behind' if you get what I mean.

[OrcinusDrake]

I was thinking more along the lines of dk amz

[celinamuna]

I really don't think that giving us raid CD as a talent is a good idea, i have a feeling that it will be required on some fights.

If it only provided personal benefit in line of "gain extra 45% block for the next 15 sec, disable passive for 30/45s" would be better.