[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Kortiah]

I know it's been discussed a lot on this thread, and people tend to lean towards Seraphim heavily, but do you people have significantly different experiences when tanking Mythic Brackenspore ?

We had him tonight on our first night on him at 10% in 25 pulls, and the two times where we got him at 10% I was in a different spec, still without knowing if I should spec Holy Shield or Seraphim. Damage seems way more steady and easy to heal/predict when playing Holy Shield, and although maybe resulting in a higher DTPS, my life is much less spiky and my healers tell me it's way easier to heal (mostly due to the absence of burst-damage during Spores+Boss debuff+Breath).

I tend to agree with them than my life is more stable, although I definitely feel like being naked way more often (since I've traded a spell for a passive and switched HA for DP), and not being able to do anything during Breath but 'pray' for a DP proc.

Here are the logs from tonight (in French because my raidleader is an ass and logs everything in French grr...) : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ce=41&fight=22

Pulls with Holy shield are #19 to #23.

[Candlemaster]

From what other people have said you want to save 5 HP for breath so you can double shotr; especially if you're HS. Otherwise as sera you want to DP + sera breaths. Personally I haven't actually done the fight in M yet, I just lurk here As to which one to go, you can do either, it seems like a lot of people are reporting HS makes it a bit easier (doesn't trivialize it but slightly better) to live on M Brack. Also thanks for teaching me the french word for brackenspore and shield.

[Kazuchika]

Paladin
Protection:
Sacred Duty now causes the Paladin to gain 30% (up from 5%) more of the Haste stat from all sources.
Glyphs:
Glyph of Alabaster Shield now increases Shield of the Righteous’ damage by 3% (down from 10%) per stack.


Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Jellospally]

and haste scales 11.1% more 90 rating for 1% instead of 100.

[celinamuna]

Haste is 11% stronger overall.
And 33% nerf to blood boil, thank you blizzard senpai overlords.

[Jellospally]

REROLLING BACK TO PALLY(or monk since they seem super strong lol)

[trystero]

Joyous news

[Jackielope]

I have a feeling we'll be seeing a nerf sometime (Alabaster Shield's nerf probably won't be a huge thing) since we're already a bit high on DPS and going towards haste means we'll be even higher since it was a good DPS stat for us in the first place.

[celinamuna]

REROLLING BACK TO PALLY(or monk since they seem super strong lol)

go away fotm scum.

this is a nice 37.56% buff to haste

I have a feeling we'll be seeing a nerf sometime (Alabaster Shield's nerf probably won't be a huge thing) since we're already a bit high on DPS and going towards haste means we'll be even higher since it was a good DPS stat for us in the first place.

Except it wasn't.

[Bobby1291]

So for the smarter Prot Pallies out there, what does this buff to haste mean for us? Any Stat priority changes or anything like that?

[Candlemaster]

astur was right all along! (also now im really worried where i'll be on TMI with haste after the changes go live) I mean yes I haven't changed anything but I feel I'll be straddling a breakpoint probably. How much of a dps loss do you guys think the glyph loss will be? My personal RNG is pretty cruddy in terms of blocking (its like 15% on avg or so with 24% block chance) so Idk how much of the glyph i really get out of it.

[Deleted]

Well Haste is going to be the best stat by a country mile, the 10% buff to it should have been enough for it to overtake Mastery/Crit definitively looking at TMI based on all of the work I've done in the past 1-2 weeks. Though I always have been running Haste for my own reasons and it's been as strong as the Mastery build ever was from my personal experience.

On a side note, the T17 2 piece will scale with Haste/Crit - but I would imagine that Haste would be the most reliable way to keep a decent uptime on the buff, Crit would be your heavily rng-based build where you will have some amazing pulls, some decent pulls and some awful pulls. Then the T17 4 piece should scale strongly with Mastery.

I expect Haste > Mastery > Crit > Vers > Multistrike to be the standard priority - Crit should be better than Mastery for dps, I doubt it would be stronger than Haste. If you run Holy Shield then Mastery may be ahead of Haste, but I think you will want a certain level of both.

Btw I would like to point out that Haste was by far and away worse than Crit for dps initially and so I still expect it to be behind Crit, so this buff to Haste will buff dps, but I don't think it will be as much as a damage buff as people think.

- - - Updated - - -

astur was right all along! (also now im really worried where i'll be on TMI with haste after the changes go live) I mean yes I haven't changed anything but I feel I'll be straddling a breakpoint probably. How much of a dps loss do you guys think the glyph loss will be? My personal RNG is pretty cruddy in terms of blocking (its like 15% on avg or so with 24% block chance) so Idk how much of the glyph i really get out of it.

I knew the changes were going to be towards buffing Haste, I expected them earlier - but any work I did on Haste had nothing to do with any expected buffs at the time, I genuinely felt stronger with Haste than Mastery when I tried both. Also, the Alabaster Shield glyph 'nerf' is purely a dps nerf and if they're going to touch that of all things then I really wouldn't complain, they could have nerfed the damage on AS/SotR/HW/Consec as they saw fit, but because we were lacking behind Guardian and Blood DK on AoE, I don't think they wanted to change us too much.

Oh, I'm expecting Theck to prove me wrong at some point, but we'll see I guess.

[Candlemaster]

I knew the changes were going to be towards buffing Haste, I expected them earlier - but any work I did on Haste had nothing to do with any expected buffs at the time, I genuinely felt stronger with Haste than Mastery when I tried both.

As in they said somewhere they would buff haste or just that you had a gut feeling/instinct that said it would be buffed?

[Deleted]

Not sure how to feel about this. Didn't Theck do some math on how to "fix" haste? Anyone fancy digging that up and see how this change measures up?

Kind of annoying to get such a change smack dab in the middle of general Mythic progression when I've been passing away most Haste items to classes that can get more out of them. I actually hope this doesn't really make Haste the "best" stat.

[handofdesu]

Not sure how to feel about this. Didn't Theck do some math on how to "fix" haste? Anyone fancy digging that up and see how this change measures up?

Kind of annoying to get such a drastic change smack dab in the middle of general Mythic progression when I've been passing away most Haste items to classes that can get more out of them. I actually hope this doesn't really make Haste the "best" stat.

Contextless quote

I think the smarter avenue at this point is to try and focus on things that affect only haste, or affect haste more directly than other stats. For example, we’ve already seen that a large part of haste’s value was lost to the rating conversion. A simpler fix would be to modify that rating conversion for prot paladins, either directly in the game data or (more likely) indirectly by increasing the rating boost granted by Sacred Duty. If Sacred Duty suddenly increased haste from gear by 30% rather than 5%, haste would be back in business.

http://www.sacredduty.net/2014/11/26...le-with-haste/

[trystero]

Not sure how to feel about this. Didn't Theck do some math on how to "fix" haste? Anyone fancy digging that up and see how this change measures up?

Kind of annoying to get such a drastic change smack dab in the middle of general Mythic progression when I've been passing away most Haste items to classes that can get more out of them. I actually hope this doesn't really make Haste the "best" stat.

Theck did say that the biggest problem re: haste involved the conversation rate:

But that’s not the worst part, in my opinion. No, in fact, I think the biggest reason haste is weak this expansion is entirely unrelated to class mechanics. It’s actually fairly simple: the rating conversion got nerfed, hard.

[Deleted]

Theck suggested the change from Sacred Duty to 30% himself - and I think in that same blog post he mentioned that they could just change the attunement stat if they wanted, but they wanted to stick to a Haste Prot Paladin model.

I kind of think they overdid it by a long way, depends on how good they want haste to be.

[Candlemaster]

Not sure how to feel about this. Didn't Theck do some math on how to "fix" haste? Anyone fancy digging that up and see how this change measures up?

Kind of annoying to get such a drastic change smack dab in the middle of general Mythic progression when I've been passing away most Haste items to classes that can get more out of them. I actually hope this doesn't really make Haste the "best" stat.

http://www.sacredduty.net/2014/11/26...le-with-haste/ was actually just looking at it. Too long to quote, half way down though he proposes what do about it.

I don't really know how you're passing up on haste items; I mean its still probably an upgrade for you even if it does have haste. Alright now to lose all credibility: I can't remember which abilities are affected by haste except for CS/HOTR and blizzard went full retard and hid half the abilities and passives we have (hell if i didnt remember guarded by the light i wouldnt know it existed). What are they again? Or could someone just find a list of all the hidden passives?

[Deleted]

I don't really know how you're passing up on haste items; I mean its still probably an upgrade for you even if it does have haste.

Yeah, sure, and I have some Haste items. However, if it's 10ilvls for me, or 10-odd for someone else whose best stat also happens to be Haste, I'll pass it (assuming there's another item I can get with better stats). Ah well, suck it up I guess.

[Candlemaster]

Yeah, sure, and I have some Haste items. However, if it's 10ilvls for me, or 10-odd for someone else whose best stat also happens to be Haste, I'll pass it (assuming there's another item I can get with better stats).

Fair enough. I assumed thats what you meant but even still dont pass away everything. I've fallen into that trap before. Also I found what i was looking for: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=25956/s...attle#comments so literally everything we have is reduced by cd and gcd by haste. Thats pretty sweet.

Random question about Avenger shield: when did they make it so the shield no longer "smart" jumps? When I played (up to first month of cata) the shield would bounce around both backwards and forwards and side to side but now the shield refuses to bounces unless the target is within like a 45 degree path of the initial throw or something like that. When did they change this? Its really annoying :\. I mean not as annoying as when it used to have a cast time (good times!) but still.