ShadowCraft Discussion Thread

[boombaam]

Is it always right?

I mean i have like 645ilvl with gear having random stats as possible as it can be for rogues in highmaul ( cant really focus on multi even tho i woudl love to ). When i use 2blue hc daggers sub sims around 22k. When i switch to combat and i equipe 2 665 axes from twins my dps sims like 6k less. My guild cleared twice normal and starts progressing hc so i dontt really want to test it during progress fights. As sub i do around19-20k and it would be ok if i only didbt get 2 665 axes that got me thinking about combat.

[Deleted]

Hi, i playing combat atm, according to Shadowcraft my 640ilvl axe in offhand is better than a 651ilvl warforged dagger. Equipping the axe shows me a 120 dps boost. Is that rly true?

[Kael]

Is it always right?

I mean i have like 645ilvl with gear having random stats as possible as it can be for rogues in highmaul ( cant really focus on multi even tho i woudl love to ). When i use 2blue hc daggers sub sims around 22k. When i switch to combat and i equipe 2 665 axes from twins my dps sims like 6k less. My guild cleared twice normal and starts progressing hc so i dontt really want to test it during progress fights. As sub i do around19-20k and it would be ok if i only didbt get 2 665 axes that got me thinking about combat.

It's as good as the writing behind it! Usually that means it's in a really good place. That said, it is not a tool designed for cross-spec comparison or accurate DPS readings. The way you should usually read Shadowcraft is that, in a given spec, if changes gear increases your DPS, it's *likely* (generally exceptions are known and documented around here) that you will see a similar DPS increase in game.

That's about the best any sim or spreadsheet can do for now.

[boombaam]

Thanks a lot for that answer. It cleared a lot.

[hornyhostage]

hi there,

is it always right to gem and enchant like SC is saying?
i'm playing assa rogue and SC suggests to use multistrike enchants. and it suggests to use shattered hand enchant on the weapon, but every other source is telling me that the expensive enchants are better.

so can you guys help me out? dont know which suggestions i should follow to maximize my dps

so long horny

[Deleted]

Hello,
I've been using SdC since the beginning of WoD to choose my pvp items. I don't know if the authors take part in this discussion but I think they've done a great job and the website is fairly easy to use even if it has tons of functionalities so congratulations on a well done work !

However I've recently respeced to combat and I find SdC's stat weights contrary to what most people gear towards / say (including very high rated PvP players)

So I have several questions about SdC's PvP mode so I will be able to choose BiS Primal gladiator's items :

1) How accurate are SdC's simulations for PvP?
2) What are the differences between the PvP and Pve simulations?
3) Why isn't the ilvl of PvP gear increased when enabling PvP mode, thus enabling us to compare PvP and PvE gear ?
4) Is the added survability given by versatility taken into account in the stat weigh math at all?
5) Why is haste so high up on combat rogue stat weights in PvP mode, even if it's not generally a good stat for pvp?

Thanks a lot in advance for your inputs !

Faskill

[Puffah]

hi there,

is it always right to gem and enchant like SC is saying?
i'm playing assa rogue and SC suggests to use multistrike enchants. and it suggests to use shattered hand enchant on the weapon, but every other source is telling me that the expensive enchants are better.

so can you guys help me out? dont know which suggestions i should follow to maximize my dps

so long horny

Shattered Hand is better at low ilvls because the direct damage is better than the scaling from secondary stats.
The stat weighs change a lot depending on your current gear. If I change my spec to Assassination Multistrike won't be that far behind Mastery or Crit, so it might just be that Shadowcraft believes that a Multistrike gem would be better with your current gear.

[Pathal]

Hello,
I've been using SdC since the beginning of WoD to choose my pvp items. I don't know if the authors take part in this discussion but I think they've done a great job and the website is fairly easy to use even if it has tons of functionalities so congratulations on a well done work !

However I've recently respeced to combat and I find SdC's stat weights contrary to what most people gear towards / say (including very high rated PvP players)

So I have several questions about SdC's PvP mode so I will be able to choose BiS Primal gladiator's items :

1) How accurate are SdC's simulations for PvP?
2) What are the differences between the PvP and Pve simulations?
3) Why isn't the ilvl of PvP gear increased when enabling PvP mode, thus enabling us to compare PvP and PvE gear ?
4) Is the added survability given by versatility taken into account in the stat weigh math at all?
5) Why is haste so high up on combat rogue stat weights in PvP mode, even if it's not generally a good stat for pvp?

Thanks a lot in advance for your inputs !

Faskill

PvP mode has been more or less abandoned. It creates more problems than it solves, and the one person I had worked with to implement it has stopped playing. It has calculated what your DPS would be if the target was another player, not an actual pvp scenario where things are very complex..

It's more likely to be removed outright, than polished up at this point.

[Deleted]

Fair enough.

Would you say regular SdC simulations would be relevant in a PvP environnement?

[Pathal]

Even less relevant.

[Deleted]

That makes me wonder what the difference is between regular and PvP mode.

Can I have an explanation for the layman?
I just want to know if SdC's calculations are completely worthless for PvP and at what point I can trust them.

To be clear, I know you simmers would like to give precise answers in every situation but sadly in PvP that's not possible. I just want an idea as to what stat I should prioritize.
There is so much controversy right now about what the best stat is that any help would be welcome.


I don't think pve calculations should be so far off from pvp simulations when you sim a fight that would last 120s. Especially with combat where your main damage comes when the target is under ks.

[Feindy]

i think it would be great if theres a changelog on shadowcraft, or at least timestamp so we can see whens the last update and how much up to date it is

[fierydemise]

That makes me wonder what the difference is between regular and PvP mode.

PvP mode switches the target armor from boss level, reduces miss chance, changes crits to 50% and adds pvp power and resil (yes, they are no longer in the game, as Pathal said PvP mode is entirely unsupported). Its not intended to do any kind of rigorous computation of PvP situations, it simply answers "if you do your sustained single target rotation on a person in PvP how much damage will you do?"

ShC will give you little to no insight on actual PvP scenarios because you will never actually get to do this. ShC's PvP mode was mostly added to answer questions about PvP power vs. AP scaling during early MoP. It was very limited then and hasn't been maintained much, if at all, since then.

[Pathal]

i think it would be great if theres a changelog on shadowcraft, or at least timestamp so we can see whens the last update and how much up to date it is

https://github.com/dazer/ShadowCraft...commits/master

Usually, I'm pretty thorough with commit details. Last build notwithstanding.

Additionally, the advanced tab lists an engine number (and the warcraft game version being targeted) on the bottom left.

[Deleted]

Any news whats happening to Shadowcraft after this tier?

I know Pathal mentioned that he wants to retire from the Theorycrafting scene; does this mean Shadowcraft will be going the same way as Shadowpanther and left for the dust to settle upon it, or has another person decided to take the mantle?

[Kael]

Pathal Pathal authored 23 hours ago

From https://github.com/dazer/ShadowCraft-Engine

The future I can't speak to, but you can look at github if you want to see if/when updates stop happening regularly... also people will be talking about it here, without a doubt.

[Kuroii]

Linky <- shadowcraft profile

Ok so my Shadowcraft has the dagger of the strategist in my offhand Losing to One that has a lower EP if you change it to the Aurora(61haste/44Versality) then when i switch it back to strategist it still gains dps am i seeing this wrong? Or is shadowcraft just misbehaving with generated armor/weapons?

[Kael]

I can't really answer your question if I can't replicate it - there are a few explanations that might help, but what weapon are you trying to switch to?

(To note, in the weapon selection listing, it's purely based on current stats - you should actually "equip" weapons and enchant/gem appropriately to see what really pulls ahead)

[Deleted]

I still get weird dps readings on enchants.. Simcraft shows Mark of Warsong being abit more than 100dps better than SH. Shadowcraft says it's a 180dps decrease, which is a margin of 280 dps?

[Unforgivenn]

how can i trust shadowcraft? everytime i click optimize gems/enchants he gives me different options..

i am using atm crit enchants on gear and mastery gems on sockets.
first try on sc: mastery enchant/crit gems
second try: crit enchant/mastery gem
third try (right now, after i closed chrome and come back): multistrike enchant/crit gems

my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...pdead/advanced

what the stats i should aim for actually?