[PROT] Fix my Tanking!

[Deleted]

hello i need some help on mytic hanze and franze but i cant post any links yet
but when my post is compleet offer some feedback i about evering i need to improve

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...t=60&source=14

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...emeijer/simple

- - - Updated - - -

Armory Link:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/silvermoon/Andremeijer/simple[/B]

Worldoflogs Link:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Jpw7f1kXxz2CRnTW#fight=16&type=damage-taken&options=128
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aRJfXNjqPhxr3tV4

Questions, concerns, expectations:
i have the feeling that i take in some parts of hanze and franze to much brust dmg
need someone that can give me some tips about my cd rotion
iam tanking franzok after the frist random stamper phse and the 2e smart stampers iam taking a lot of dmg is that norm ?
my expectations are verry simple
i want somone to help me give me some usefull tips
about hanze and franze aswell on the ohterlogs i linkt

i hope i post this in the good way

[Deleted]

Hey Andremeijer,

I'll take a look through your logs and see if I can help you in any way. I'm working on my log analysis so forgive me if I'm missing stuff or reading too much into things, but I'll do my best. To start off with:

i have the feeling that i take in some parts of hanze and franze to much brust dmg

Hans n Franz damage is very predictable, you always know when you'll be taking spike damage and when you'll be taking constant damage. That means you can plan all of your cooldowns around it, and call for healer cooldowns on almost every spike. Read below.

need someone that can give me some tips about my cd rotion

You're going overkill with personals on Crippling Suplex. Instead of using a major and DP, ask for an external (Vigilance/Hand of Sacrifice/Ironbark). Using DP if you've got Shattered Vertebrae on you before the Suplex is absolutely fine.

On the linked log (22) you use your trinket, Holy Avenger and DP all at the same time. This happens a few times during your attempts, be careful of overlapping cd's too much as it'll leave you vulnerable afterwards. You shouldn't need any soft cooldowns while HA is active as the constant SotR uptime along with WoG on Bastion stacks is enough on its own.

Try to save your DP for when you've got Shattered Vertebrae and heavy movement. First random stamper phase -> second smart stampers transition is a good time to use it as you've got a boss hitting you, possibly some stacks still and your healers are moving. Definitely use it on two stacks of Shattered, you can also use it if you're being hit on one stack.

iam tanking franzok after the frist random stamper phse and the 2e smart stampers iam taking a lot of dmg is that norm ?

Yes, this is normal. Your healers are moving and you've got the body slam debuff, you're gonna take a beating as well as a potential slam during the movement after the random stampers, so plan for this damage spike by having DP available for it and call out for a Sac/Vigi from your raid.

i want somone to help me give me some usefull tips

Use Light's Hammer! You've taken it as a talent but you're barely using it at all and not efficiently. Use it on the smart stampers or when you stack up for the random stampers.

Holy Avenger on this fight is eh, kind of iffy. I personally use Divine Purpose as I've found HA is only up twice during the fight (our kills are around 4:30, and I'm right in the middle of the random stampers when it comes off cd again) and I can't line it up with heavy damage taken without sitting on it for too long, so I get more use out of DP.

-------------------

On the logs themselves, at the risk of repeating myself, I'll mention a few things:

Shattered Vertebrae followed by melee hits is causing most of your spike damage. Pool HoPo during the random stampers to cover yourself until the second stack.

With a fight as predictable as this one, use your soft cooldowns at times when your healers will have a tough time healing you - third smart stamper (often aligns with Shattered) and transition between random and smart stampers.

Your Turnbuckle trinket, combined with HA, gives you a "godmode" but leaves you very weak afterwards. Use HA when you're able to use the SotR uptime and save your trinket for when you're moving and taking damage. Combining both is overkill.

Try to spread your CDs out more over periods of damage; look at your damage taken graph and make a mental note of when you've got high spikes and align your cooldowns with them to start with.

Overall, your raid's DPS is very low and your Holy Paladin is not pulling his/her weight. On our kill this week, our (admittedly very skilled) HPally healed 12.22m (44k HPS) over 4:32, while yours healed 9.57m (26k HPS) over 5:52 (when he/she died). I unfortunately don't know anything about HPally at the moment so I'm afraid I can't help there.

There are things to improve on but your raid is struggling, it is a bit difficult to judge between misplay and your raid not pulling the numbers.You can contribute more to your raid but I'm afraid I'm not proficient enough to analyze that yet, all I can do is look at what's a direct detriment. In your case, its really not that much.

I hope this helps at least a little, you're more than welcome to add me on bnet and I'll happily answer questions/help out however I can (Puzzles#2547).

Happy gaming!

EDIT: I really need to figure out how to condense all of this, but I've got a pet peeve with not explaining something in detail. Ugh.

[Deleted]

tks for helping me so far
i have add you game tag
so we may have a chance to talk it over later :P
one qwestion can you aswel see if i waste any hopo in the best atemt we got
(log22)
6https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aRJfXNjqPhxr3tV4/#type=auras&fight=60&source=14

iam using empouwer seals i have the feeling my sotr uptime sloud be better
any opinion about that ?

[Deleted]

tks for helping me so far
i have add you game tag
so we may have a chance to talk it over later :P
one qwestion can you aswel see if i waste any hopo in the best atemt we got
(log22)
6https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/aRJfXNjqPhxr3tV4/#type=auras&fight=60&source=14

iam using empouwer seals i have the feeling my sotr uptime sloud be better
any opinion about that ?

You waste a non-insignificant amount of Holy Power on every attempt (usually to the tune of 9-10 HoPo total, without accounting for GC proc overflow which I haven't checked), and yes, your SotR uptime is rather very low considering that you're using EmpS. Barely 50% uptime on SotR is not acceptable under any circumstances with EmpS, nor is consistently sub-100% SS uptime.

[Deleted]

You waste a non-insignificant amount of Holy Power on every attempt (usually to the tune of 9-10 HoPo total, without accounting for GC proc overflow which I haven't checked), and yes, your SotR uptime is rather very low considering that you're using EmpS. Barely 50% uptime on SotR is not acceptable under any circumstances with EmpS, nor is consistently sub-100% SS uptime.

So, would it be fair saying Hans n Franz isn't necessarily a good indication of SotR uptime as there's so much movement and depending on your RNG and kill time it can vary quite a bit? Mine fluctuates anywhere between 45% and 75% overall, but my stretches of downtime are either over no damage taken (random stampers, so also very low casts) or very little damage taken with a cooldown up (running to begin smart stampers). We do tend to push the kill very quickly so we don't get the third smart stamper set - on our kills/attempts that manage to go past 5min I've got much higher uptime on SotR compared to our usual 4:30~ kills.

His HoP wasting is inconsistent. I had a small part in my original reply but removed it as I was too tired to look into it fully. On some fights he only wastes HoPo using J, which in my opinion is fine considering the movement of the fight, and on others he wastes up to 8 on CS. He was also pooling 3 HoPo and spending it, instead of 5-pooling, so pooling and spending correctly should help considerably with his SotR uptime. I was too sleepy to pick up on that so it made no sense at all.

This is actually really good exercise, I've noticed three or four things I definitely can improve on my play.

[Deleted]

So, would it be fair saying Hans n Franz isn't necessarily a good indication of SotR uptime as there's so much movement and depending on your RNG and kill time it can vary quite a bit? Mine fluctuates anywhere between 45% and 75% overall, but my stretches of downtime are either over no damage taken (random stampers, so also very low casts) or very little damage taken with a cooldown up (running to begin smart stampers). We do tend to push the kill very quickly so we don't get the third smart stamper set - on our kills/attempts that manage to go past 5min I've got much higher uptime on SotR compared to our usual 4:30~ kills.

His HoP wasting is inconsistent. I had a small part in my original reply but removed it as I was too tired to look into it fully. On some fights he only wastes HoPo using J, which in my opinion is fine considering the movement of the fight, and on others he wastes up to 8 on CS. He was also pooling 3 HoPo and spending it, instead of 5-pooling, so pooling and spending correctly should help considerably with his SotR uptime. I was too sleepy to pick up on that so it made no sense at all.

This is actually really good exercise, I've noticed three or four things I definitely can improve on my play.

Unless your movement is ass on Hans and Franz, it shouldn't significantly impact your SotR uptime compared to a Patchwerk fight. You have to be moving incorrectly during the patterned stamper phase to ever outrange the boss for a significant enough period of time to impact your SotR uptime noticeably.

[Deleted]

Unless your movement is ass on Hans and Franz, it shouldn't significantly impact your SotR uptime compared to a Patchwerk fight. You have to be moving incorrectly during the patterned stamper phase to ever outrange the boss for a significant enough period of time to impact your SotR uptime noticeably.

So pretty much my movement is ass. I had a look at my logs to see if I do this on any other fights and oh boy...I'm not messing up on anything tanking-related but there are so many times that I'm either slacking or not doing anything efficiently, where I could be pulling more DPS or smoothing my movement. Sadly I think we're extending the lockout to have a solid week on Maidens before 6.2 or something so I won't be able to work on it on Mythic, which is a shame.

[Astynax]

I havent tanked raids in foooooreverrr as a prot pally and likely picked up some bad habits from tanking on my alt warrior.

Did a few bosses on an alt run last night
Darmac
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=80

Thogar
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=80

Oregorger
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=80

Darmac & Thogar I picked holy shield to block more vs so many adds. Ore I went Seraphim and tried to line it up with acid torrent. Didnt bother to keep up seraphim during roll phases (should I?). With the demo lock nerf I'll be going back to maining ret with prot offspec come 6.2. Anything I can look to improve on?

[Deleted]

I havent tanked raids in foooooreverrr as a prot pally and likely picked up some bad habits from tanking on my alt warrior.

Did a few bosses on an alt run last night
Darmac
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=80

Thogar
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=80

Oregorger
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=80

Darmac & Thogar I picked holy shield to block more vs so many adds. Ore I went Seraphim and tried to line it up with acid torrent. Didnt bother to keep up seraphim during roll phases (should I?). With the demo lock nerf I'll be going back to maining ret with prot offspec come 6.2. Anything I can look to improve on?

Seraphim uptime is half of what it should be, SotR uptime equally terrible, and HoPo wastage is through the roof. Get a proper UI that actually allows you to track stuff while performing mechanics, and don't play Seraphim if you struggle to manage 40% uptime or higher. It's not a defensive CD, it's a talent that's supposed to be used rotationally as specified in the Prot paladin guide stickied to this forum.

Oh, and stop playing SW. If you don't like DP, play HA, not SW. SW is a talent that bears consideration in terms of maximizing single-target DPS under certain circumstances, but given that you're struggling to just get the tanking part of the spec right, DPS is the last thing you should be concerning yourself with.

[Astynax]

Seraphim uptime is half of what it should be, SotR uptime equally terrible, and HoPo wastage is through the roof. Get a proper UI that actually allows you to track stuff while performing mechanics, and don't play Seraphim if you struggle to manage 40% uptime or higher. It's not a defensive CD, it's a talent that's supposed to be used rotationally as specified in the Prot paladin guide stickied to this forum.

Oh, and stop playing SW. If you don't like DP, play HA, not SW. SW is a talent that bears consideration in terms of maximizing single-target DPS under certain circumstances, but given that you're struggling to just get the tanking part of the spec right, DPS is the last thing you should be concerning yourself with.

Alright good points. I picked up the WA buff trackers. Ive rarely used Seraphim and mostly just shield when I tanked for dungeons thus far

Ive been looking at the trash pack death at the very start with the Ogron Hauler and Ironworkers too and not sure how to tank it.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...=4&view=events

At 1:05 to 1:07 I just go from 100 to 0. No SotR or Sera since this is just opening on pull and wasnt able to hit anything or get HP to cast before I died.


Then at 2:31 I get hit for 246k, more than half my HP. Back wasnt turned, was directly facing him. SotR down and Sera just ended, SS was up, but shouldnt be able to get that hard normally? From 2:28 stromp, 2:29 Overhead smash 166k, 2:31 246k. Again from 100-0 in 3 seconds here.

[Ansekh]

1.05 till 1.07 those iron workers require a hefty CD like bubble or guardian. As you took 12x 40k hits within 2 sec.

At 2:31 you get it by overhead smash. does a fair amount of physical damage and forces a tank switch. Due to the 200% extra physical damage taken. You get it by a melee for 350k 2 sec there after.

First one you forget to pop a CD, second your co-tank was lazy or you didn't pop a CD.
I hope this answers it

[kouji71]

Armory Link:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...halis/advanced
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/player...27dorei/rhalis since armory won't take me out of ret.

Alternate Specs/Glyphs:

was using Holy avenger and glyph of focused shield instead of SW and glyph of holy wrath that are shown in armory.

Worldoflogs Link:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...mmary&cutoff=4

Questions, concerns, expectations:

I can't figure out why my SoTR uptime is so low. Also, I hate flamebender and wonder if anyone has any suggestions to help me out.

Description of Playstyle:
I use Theck's weakauras to manage HP and spell priority. I think i used my 655 stam trinket instead of TTT, since I just have it macroed to seraphim anyway, and seraphim wasn't lining up with heroism.


Just looking for general suggestions for heroic Flamebender. I really really don't like this fight. One of those wipes was because my co-tank didn't turn fast enough and got me caught in a 4th breath. nothing I could do about that.

[kouji71]

Is my tanking that bad? or is it just because the new raid is coming out next week so it doesn't matter.

or maybe it's just cause everyone rerolled...

[RagnorZ]

Is my tanking that bad? or is it just because the new raid is coming out next week so it doesn't matter.

or maybe it's just cause everyone rerolled...

Got 1 shot by Charring Breath because you had no AM up and didn't call for any externals
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ight=7&death=3
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...toff=4&death=2

Stood in "fire"
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ight=8&death=2

With the Seraphim rotation you should always have either Div Prot, SotR or Sera up. Near the end of the Seraphim buff you should bank 5hp so you can 2x SoTR after Seraphim ends to carry to till you can Div Prot again. Practice the rotation on a target dummy till you can cycle DP > Sera > SoTR x2 where you never have time where something isn't up.

Alternatively use Holy Shield if you can't do the Seraphim rotation under pressure, it's a good fight for Holy Shield anyway.

Call for an external (Sac, Vig, Barkskin etc) if breath is coming and you have no AM available.

Don't stand in things.

[kouji71]

Got 1 shot by Charring Breath because you had no AM up and didn't call for any externals
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ight=7&death=3
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...toff=4&death=2

Stood in "fire"
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ight=8&death=2



With the Seraphim rotation you should always have either Div Prot, SotR or Sera up. Near the end of the Seraphim buff you should bank 5hp so you can 2x SoTR after Seraphim ends to carry to till you can Div Prot again. Practice the rotation on a target dummy till you can cycle DP > Sera > SoTR x2 where you never have time where something isn't up.

Alternatively use Holy Shield if you can't do the Seraphim rotation under pressure, it's a good fight for Holy Shield anyway.

Call for an external (Sac, Vig, Barkskin etc) if breath is coming and you have no AM available.

Don't stand in things.

Thank you, I'll have to work on the rotation.. Though I may go back to holy shield for HFC anyway, seems like there's a lot of magic damage, and seraphim isn't causing me to do the insane amounts of dps it used to now that people in my guild have caught up gear-wise.

[RagnorZ]

Holy Shield is good on fights like Flamebender and Thogar, no shame in running it.

[Deleted]

Holy Shield is good on fights like Flamebender and Thogar, no shame in running it.

Holy Shield is amazing! Its only really Kromog, Han'sgar and Franzok, and Gruul where it isn't a solid choice, and it looks very good going into 6.2, but I'll wait until Solaire has run his numbers.

[Deleted]

Holy Shield is amazing! Its only really Kromog, Han'sgar and Franzok, and Gruul where it isn't a solid choice, and it looks very good going into 6.2, but I'll wait until Solaire has run his numbers.

It's actually excellent on Kromog because it allows you to block Fists of Stone. It's also a better defensive talent than Seraphim or EmpS on Gruul because first of all you can get lucky and block the actual Inferno Slice, and second of all it blocks the Inferno Slice DoT which you're going to have for the majority of the fight. It's perfectly possible to do 32-33k DPS on Gruul with Holy Shield, and you could likely do more if you deliberately stood in the soak group even for slices where you weren't taking the initial physical hit.

[Deleted]

It's actually excellent on Kromog because it allows you to block Fists of Stone. It's also a better defensive talent than Seraphim or EmpS on Gruul because first of all you can get lucky and block the actual Inferno Slice, and second of all it blocks the Inferno Slice DoT which you're going to have for the majority of the fight. It's perfectly possible to do 32-33k DPS on Gruul with Holy Shield, and you could likely do more if you deliberately stood in the soak group even for slices where you weren't taking the initial physical hit.

I did test both on Kromog and got slightly better results with HS but I put that on just improving my play and not, well, dying at 7.5%. The question is if its worth it over EmpS in terms of surv, sadly won't be able to test it so if you have I'd very much like to see the results. I'm a HS liberal and I'm undervaluing it, the shame.

[Deleted]

It's actually excellent on Kromog because it allows you to block Fists of Stone. It's also a better defensive talent than Seraphim or EmpS on Gruul because first of all you can get lucky and block the actual Inferno Slice, and second of all it blocks the Inferno Slice DoT which you're going to have for the majority of the fight. It's perfectly possible to do 32-33k DPS on Gruul with Holy Shield, and you could likely do more if you deliberately stood in the soak group even for slices where you weren't taking the initial physical hit.

wish i knew this 2 weeks ago >.<