Just watched Paragon Blackahnd Mythic kill..

[kornoth]

I assume you are trying to be funny? And that you are trying to imply that warlocks are in a bad spot at the moment? Weird.
I just started to raid on my lock as a main (678ilvl after the ilvl buff), and I can do 30k+ dps ST easy, and I don't even have my 4set yet. I honestly don't understand why so many feel warlocks are in a bad spot at the moment. Yes, we don't have a boomie AOE, or a mage burst, but we are just fine. Everyone can't be at the top, just as everyone can't be at the bottom, and I don't have a problem being mid-top really.

Good for you if you are a casual player with what you have.
If you were following the warlock forum, you will know that no warlock is complaining about the dps ( even if in ST mage dps outclass us, but it's fine because there are many other situation where we have better dps).

The main problem of the warlock class today is the utility of the class that is abyssimal. We just have no utility, and don't start speaking about the gate plz.
And the class is just so clunky right now. Affliction is just the most rng spec in the game, yes more rng than fire, and fire is supposed to be the rng spec because crit is rng.
We are also the only class that has core spell of different specs totaly useless. Seriously, why do we have soul swap? rain of fire? immolation aura? why does blizzard remove spells that would have been usable, like felflame and don't take out those spells that we just don't use?

So stop talking about dps, single target is " okay" being mid-bottom is not okay for a pure class, but if you're satisfied it's good for you. It's not a big deal because we are good at cleave. But the class is not fun to play, that is the problem.

Regards.

[Deleted]

Good for you if you are a casual player with what you have.
If you were following the warlock forum, you will know that no warlock is complaining about the dps ( even if in ST mage dps outclass us, but it's fine because there are many other situation where we have better dps).

The main problem of the warlock class today is the utility of the class that is abyssimal. We just have no utility, and don't start speaking about the gate plz.
And the class is just so clunky right now. Affliction is just the most rng spec in the game, yes more rng than fire, and fire is supposed to be the rng spec because crit is rng.
We are also the only class that has core spell of different specs totaly useless. Seriously, why do we have soul swap? rain of fire? immolation aura? why does blizzard remove spells that would have been usable, like felflame and don't take out those spells that we just don't use?

So stop talking about dps, single target is " okay" being mid-bottom is not okay for a pure class, but if you're satisfied it's good for you. It's not a big deal because we are good at cleave. But the class is not fun to play, that is the problem.

Regards.

it's not mid bottom :$

[zvvl]

The main problem of the warlock class today is the utility of the class that is abyssimal. We just have no utility, and don't start speaking about the gate plz.

"we have no utility aside from this utility spell that's really good but don't talk about that"

[Deleted]

"we have no utility aside from this utility spell that's really good but don't talk about that"

gateway isnt exactly good, its useful on a couple of encounters but other than that its very very situational, id rather have something like amplify magic or devotion aura which is useful on every encounter.

[Turturin the Warlock]

gateway isnt exactly good, its useful on a couple of encounters but other than that its very very situational, id rather have something like amplify magic or devotion aura which is useful on every encounter.

Its not a raid cooldown. It's more in the category of Gorefiend's Grasp in that it does something unique that is sometimes really really helpful. That also means that sometimes it won't be helpful at all.


You don't always need devo or amplify either, and while they are nearly always useful, they don't have quite the same variance in usefulness.


So it's really a subjective thing which you'd prefer (a raid cooldown or a unique raid utility spell), but to call gateway not "good" is not really supportable in my mind.

[Deleted]

Gateway is basically great or terrible. The only fight we used it for this tier was Operator Thogar where it was nice for one deforester, but hardly a big deal.

Amplify Magic is ALWAYS useful.

[Novx]

Its not a raid cooldown. It's more in the category of Gorefiend's Grasp in that it does something unique that is sometimes really really helpful. That also means that sometimes it won't be helpful at all.


You don't always need devo or amplify either, and while they are nearly always useful, they don't have quite the same variance in usefulness.


So it's really a subjective thing which you'd prefer (a raid cooldown or a unique raid utility spell), but to call gateway not "good" is not really supportable in my mind.

While I will agree it is a raid utility and has its place lets think of what fights a gateway is currently useful on in BRF. It can be useful on Mythic Kromog for quickly getting from far left to far right pillars, Mythic trains for the deforester, and I suppose you could argue Oregorger and Blast Furnace but I wouldn't really consider its usage in either of those anything special. It is a utility, yes, but it is an underwhelming utility. If we still brought healthstones I would be happier but as of now our second utility is replaced by First Aid which is just wrong. Here is the main difference between DK grip, Mage/Paladin/Rogue raid CDs, and Warlock Gateways; ours requires a pre-positioned mechanic on both ends that can be blocked by raid encounters (ex: Tectus mountains, growing Margok mines, etc). No other class that I can think of has such a situational raid utility that is also taxed by being pre-placed beforehand as well as the chance of raid mechanics RNG'ing that utility to utter worthlessness.

[Gaidax]

Yes, warlocks could use some raid spell, especially after Mages got Amplify and Hunters - fox, for god knows what reason.

For example, for 5 seconds raid gains 15% leech
or
maybe instantly deal 12.5% max HP damage to everyone in a raid and then they heal for 25% of max HP over 6 seconds
or
maybe for the next 4 seconds all friendly targets do not lose or regenerate mana/energy/rage/runic power.

[Octa]

maybe instantly deal 12.5% max HP damage to everyone in a raid and then they heal for 25% of max HP over 6 seconds

Ultimate troll spell.

[Novx]

Ultimate troll spell.

I think that spell would be great. You get 9 warlocks to all que LFR together and the second the boss hits 5% hp you all cast it.

[squee666]

I think that spell would be great. You get 9 warlocks to all que LFR together and the second the boss hits 5% hp you all cast it.

Oh i would just troll mage and world pvp with it

[Walrock]

What about this:
Curse of the Elements: Curses the target, increasing magic damage taken by 10% for 15 sec. Affects all enemies in 20y of the target. 3min CD.
Curse of Weakness: Curses the target, increasing physical damage taken by 10% for 15 sec. Affects all enemies in 20y of the target. 3min CD.

Or something like this:
Curse of the Elements: Curses the target, increasing damage taken by 10% for 15 sec. Affects all enemies in 20y of the target. 3min CD.
Curse of Weakness: Curses the target, reduces the damage dealt by 10% for 15 sec. Affects all enemies in 20y of the target. 3min CD.

Would be a nice raid CD, an iconic warlock spell and could be used to push raid damage or to protect the raid from damage.
Maybe a bit op with Bloodlust/Hero but numbers can always be tweaked.

[Deleted]

could also be something like a raidwide dark regenation, id love a dps buff utility but that wont happen with bloodlust, would be an extremely OP in conjunction with BL. i think a raidwide dark regeneration would be more plausable. a raidwide version of unending resolve which essentially be a devotion aura would fit too. a dps buff utility wont happen. could also be something like healing burst, heals every1 within 10 yards of you for 5% of your max health for 15 secs, turning you into a healing totem. there are plenty of option, its just sad that the utility we do bring is pretty much useless.

[Zevoa]

Less raid cds on dps, thanks.

[teddabear]

So stop talking about dps, single target is " okay" being mid-bottom is not okay for a pure class, but if you're satisfied it's good for you. It's not a big deal because we are good at cleave. But the class is not fun to play, that is the problem.

Pure / hybrid is long gone. Hunters and Mages have both the best buffs and the best utility in the game. How Blizzard came to the conclusion that Hunters needed yet more utility is only slightly less confusing than quantum entanglement.

[MycantrumX]

I'm still a big fan of the "Fel Infusion" idea that I read on here when Amp. Magic and Aspect of the Fox were announced. Gives your whole raid 15% leech for 10 seconds or something like that.

[Deleted]

Pure / hybrid is long gone. Hunters and Mages have both the best buffs and the best utility in the game. How Blizzard came to the conclusion that Hunters needed yet more utility is only slightly less confusing than quantum entanglement.

there will be pures and hybrids as long as there are classes that can only perform 1 role, blizz might have removed the "hybrid tax" but that didnt remove the existance of pures and hybrids.

well, hunters had very very little utility in MoP so it makes sense to give them some. the same goes with mages but why they had to remove every useful utility from locks is beyond me, so i wouldnt say its very confusing atleast not to the level of quantum entanglement aka "spookey action at distance".

[Noxina]

Feel this thread is kinda derailed by now?

[teddabear]

there will be pures and hybrids as long as there are classes that can only perform 1 role, blizz might have removed the "hybrid tax" but that didnt remove the existance of pures and hybrids.

well, hunters had very very little utility in MoP .

???

Full DPS on the move and at range
Highest burst in the game
Can bring any buff in the game

Hunters had the most utility before they got Fox


In any event Blizzard is far too busy making money off pets, mounts and selling gold to worry about little things like whether specs are playable or not.

[evertonbelmontt]

@teddabear

IMO, utility is anything that can help your raid and it's not raw dps.
Buffs, damage reductions, situational tools (gateway, healthstones), etc.

What you're listing is considered perks of one class/spec.

Hunters are retarded in the sense that they don't have weakness anymore. For PVE this isn't a problem, because although they aren't in no way weak, they aren't the best either. But for PVP... holy shit.