Just watched Paragon Blackahnd Mythic kill..

[Cocobutters]

The 25% demonbolt nerf did kill demonbolt though... Its still viable on heroics but if you are min/maxing its not.

Locks are not in a great place, but they are ok...

locks are in a gr8 place xD

[Novx]

Okay, you have one guild where a warlock is actually God and the others aren't. Please think now about hundreds of other guilds. Bringing up one guild with one warlock is hardly an argument don't you think?

Except for where there aren't hundreds of guilds that have killed the boss, there are 8. Keep in mind, meter dps != meaningful DPS. Moonkins don't have the greatest ST DPS but on an encounter like Kromog, Blackhand, or Beastlord they increase the raids potential to do ST DPS as they can more passively kill things like spears.

[odoylerules]

I've looked at these logs in the various different ways people have posted them, and all I can conclude is that some warlocks are jealous of mages.

In no way to any of these charts demonstrate warlocks as underpowered. They're right where they should be. On the other hand, a case could be made that mages are currently overpowered as they are consistently topping a disproportionate amount of fights

When you make the case that mage numbers are the highest therefore warlocks suck, you're betraying a sense of entitlement that some warlocks have lingering from MoP days.

Also, if this really isn't about wanted to be the best, as some of you claim, maybe don't limit your research to top-top-TOP players on the planet.

[Demonidze]

warlocks are fine stop the whining. its just more difficult now to keep up with other classes.

[purebalance]

Rubin, Shizwix, Conflicted, Chanimal, Александр, Cykeld. Do I get half a dozen cookies?

I think the problem here is that Locks were OP for more than an entire expansion. Now that they've been brought back into line they aren't topping every fight. I know this is confusing to some, but it's the way games like this work. They constantly re-balance the classes/specs which leads to fluctuations in various rankings.

Thank god mages and warriors got punished in MoP for Cata.... oh wait they didn't. And the devs actually flat out SAID they were punishing locks for MoP.

- - - Updated - - -

Only issue here is that locks used to top metres with minimal effort and now they actually have to play to a respectable standard to be competitive and some people don't like that, re roll several alts if you wanna top every fight

"Minimal effort" yet all the rerolls were usually pretty low on the meters. try again.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

If anyone in your team is doing 50+k single target then you are beyond concern.
At the level most people play at, Warlock is very strong and 100 percent viable.

However, if you are a world first raider, then you probably need to play whats best and stop complaining. The game will never be balanced at that level .

[Tramzh]

warlocks are fine stop the whining. its just more difficult now to keep up with other classes.

How come it's literally only people on mmochampion that says stuff like "they are fine stop complaining" it literally doesn't make sense I haven't heard anyone else say that anywhere else, what am I missing? You are even contradicting yourself with this statement.
Also you people know like half of those ppl pulling 40k+ on mythic gruul are prenerf right?
zzzzzz

[odoylerules]

How come it's literally only people on mmochampion that says stuff like "they are fine stop complaining" it literally doesn't make sense I haven't heard anyone else say that anywhere else, what am I missing? You are even contradicting yourself with this statement.
Also you people know like half of those ppl pulling 40k+ on mythic gruul are prenerf right?
zzzzzz

I would say the reason you see this attitude on MMO Champion is because there are generally smarter people here. There's no shortage of people complaining on any forum and in regards to any class. It's an epidemic quite frankly. However, on MMO Champion, there is a better ratio than most places of reasonable and rational posters who are able to look at the big picture instead of how any given aspect of the game affects them personally in a vacuum. And for the record, there are voices of reason elsewhere. They are just a little more common here.

[Unlockmyhrt]

I love how the relevant posts like novas just get ignored lol

[Zoldor]

I like that people keep claiming warlocks are fine. That is a mis-statement. Demo is fine, not great, but fine you can do what you need, but no one is going to pat you on the back unless you can exploit cata .

Destro and Affliction are not fine...they are meh at their absolute best (4p + Trinkets) and that is to be meh. It is pretty sad that for our specs to work right and in harmony you have to have 2p or in demo's case 4p...isn't that a little silly. Anyways, we aren't terribad we are just lowest on the totem poll in a few fights we make up for it on others; if you play demo or are fully geared.

Affliction and Destro are fairly sad. They need buffs. Demo is acceptable especially with 4p and like I said no one is going to be like "OH SHIT! A warlock!" or "Oh...shit...a lock." either. But they do need to look at our class and make some decisions especially destro and affliction. Relying on gear to make your class mechanics work like they should is bad design.

[kamuii]

Talking about damage on blackhand via the small number of videos you've watched is futile. Siege tanks take +100% more damage at one point on p2, and we don't have logs to show % overall dmg to siege tanks. If Paragon locks were low, instead of mid-tier on skada, it is more likely that they didn't put dmg into siege tanks + bad rng in p3 for individual movement.

Personally I think demo is in a good spot. It's Godly at burst aoe, decent at mobility, semi good at multidot. mediocre singletarget. Usually I just bring my hunter in for single target fights, mythic gruul/oregorger/black hand.

Destru and affl though... Just bleh.

[Zevoa]

...and I feel dissappointed when I'm looking at their recount. Locks are literally rock bottom, only tanks are under them. Mages/rogues/hunters are ahead of them by 4-5 million damage. I wonder what would Blizz say if we would ask them that directly in the face. Same PR bullshit "We are happy with warlocks. They are well balanced."

How can you say warlock is balanced when a mage is dealing 53k constant dps and warlocks doing 38k dps max. Is that what we call balance?

P.S: Mod, please correct my misspell in Blackhand word

Hey, a fight with a damage amp. Maybe know how the encounter works and what classes have been given specific assignments before you post your dribble.

[kamuii]

If anyone in your team is doing 50+k single target then you are beyond concern.
At the level most people play at, Warlock is very strong and 100 percent viable.

However, if you are a world first raider, then you probably need to play whats best and stop complaining. The game will never be balanced at that level .

Wait, what is the level "most people" play at? I've pugged here and there on my alt and the level those guys play at is just atrocious and definitely not viable because they were a carry and half.

[Zevoa]

If you're struggling to keep up with other classes on ST dps as a warlock then you're doing something dramatically wrong.

[Deleted]

Hey hey hey )) warlocks are whining again, what a surprise. you guys are blessed faggots, just shut up already and uninstall this game if you cant compete, thanks

Infracted - Woz

[Ghostile]

Hey hey hey )) warlocks are whining again, what a surprise. you guys are blessed faggots, just shut up already and uninstall this game if you cant compete, thanks

Surely sounds like you can't compete and are mad because of to that.

[Totemslap]

Okay, you have one guild where a warlock is actually God and the others aren't. Please think now about hundreds of other guilds. Bringing up one guild with one warlock is hardly an argument don't you think?

If he's able to play the class to that level or performance, it means the class is capable of performing on that level. Learn to play your class on a higher level and you'll perform better. The only class I see complaining as much as Warlocks are Shaman DPS and they have far more fucking reason to do so. At least Warlocks are being taken on Mythic progression content. Enhancement is garbage in BRF and Elemental is literally just a sub-par Balance Druid. I reiterate: get better at your class. One person playing to that level doesn't make them an outlier, it means that the class is capable of performing on that level, regardless of what backwards ass mental gymnastics you have to do to fool yourself into believing otherwise.

[Deleted]

...and I feel dissappointed when I'm looking at their recount. Locks are literally rock bottom, only tanks are under them. Mages/rogues/hunters are ahead of them by 4-5 million damage. I wonder what would Blizz say if we would ask them that directly in the face. Same PR bullshit "We are happy with warlocks. They are well balanced."

How can you say warlock is balanced when a mage is dealing 53k constant dps and warlocks doing 38k dps max. Is that what we call balance?

P.S: Mod, please correct my misspell in Blackhand word

Might be news for you but people in top guilds don't necessarily push for top dps but push where it's needed. IF they have bunch of adds but one add needs to go down asap then you won;t see people spamming aoe to pump their dps but to burst down that one add.

ALSO

Watch Method World First Kill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHJ_hqJewM0&t=585

2 locks at the top #1 and #2

So now what? We nerf locks?

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, you have one guild where a warlock is actually God and the others aren't. Please think now about hundreds of other guilds. Bringing up one guild with one warlock is hardly an argument don't you think?

Sounds like L2P issue tbh.

[Pua]

Wait, what is the level "most people" play at? I've pugged here and there on my alt and the level those guys play at is just atrocious and definitely not viable because they were a carry and half.

That’s not really his point.

What he’s saying is that at every level, up until Mythic, if you’re having trouble then it’s unlikely to be a DPS issue; it’s much more likely to be a mechanical one. So “most players” in LFR doing 16k DPS is fine for LFR. “Most players” doing 22k in normal is fine for normal. “Most players” doing 28k in heroic is fine for heroic. Hell, we could even argue that outside of pure progression from the top 1%, the overwhelming majority of Mythic encounters will be tweaked slightly (or classes will be) in order to make sure they’re viable when the largest percentage gets to them. There are always high and low outliers, but they cancel each other out.

It’s much more accurate to make the argument:

“My logs are showing that I’m a superior player to [this class], and I’m equivalently geared, so why am I doing less DPS? That sucks!”

And that’s a perfectly legitimate claim to make. It does suck to be working harder and playing better than another player of another class, only to see them beat you on DPS. It just feels bad. But trying to frame that frustration into an argument about holding back a raid group is rarely, if ever, going to be considered valid. Even at the top end of bleeding edge progression, this is a fact that’s accepted by players and they get around it with a geared stable of alts.

On topic:

Warlocks look as if they’re doing okay to me, and they’re strong on certain encounters; particularly when allocated to tasks that play to their strengths. Sadly, it’s just another case of mages being too good and designed as the best caster class. That’s the way it’s been for as long as I can remember, and it was never better encapsulated when they were buffed during Throne of Thunder because (according to Greg Street) they “weren’t where [they] wanted them”.

They were already top on seven or eight encounters, and no worse than third on the others.

[sarasun]

Meanwhile DPS shamans are just not brought to any encounter. "But, look at Thogar, enhancement are fine!"

... Warlocks are fine. Mages/Hunters/Rogues are not.