Quick Play game openings.

[AeneasBK]

Okay, so I'm pretty new, and a bit of a noob; but I learn and I'll listen to people who know.

It seems that on a lot of the maps with a central watch tower (Sky Temple, Blackhearts Bay etc.) or even the less obvious maps, people have started asking for grouping up at the start to win the "group fight" over it.

Thats fine w/e don't particularly think its that worth the investment but w/e

What bugs me is AFTER the position is won or lost or w/e people want to group up fighting afterwards while lanes are being pushed or w/e.

I go to a free lane to soak up some XP for the team then get flamed for not joining in, as far as I'm concerned the fight is over already and it is moer important to not fall behind XP-wise at this point than keep pushing for some extra kills.

So the question is: "Stay in a 5 man pack for the first 3-4 minutes or split into lane and farm XP?" It seems if the enemy wants to sit 4 people in top lane for example, then its best to just fight them at your towers and get the XP from the lane they aren't farming and just beat them down a few minutes later with a 1 or 2 level advantage, especially timing it for when you hit 7 and tey are still on 5 or 6...


What is the MMOC community opinion on this?

[Aliessil]

Partly it depends on what your opponents are doing; so long as it's a 5vs5 it doesn't matter much. If you can manage 4vs5 then moving someone to a lane to farm XP is even better. If you're 5vs4 and not killing them quickly, get out of there and back to lanes asap.

Basically .. there's no hard rules, it depends on the match :-)

[Deleted]

Packing up in the start is terrible. XP for hero kills is nowhere near enough to be worth forsaking 2, or maybe even 3, lanes worth of creep exp. Experience points are the only currency in HotS and as such their value is supreme. If the enemies go 5man, go 1 1 3(for a 3 lane map) and have the 3-man group just continuously delay and run away. If you manage to keep that up for as little as one minute that's a huge advantage, even if one or two of them dies.

[AeneasBK]

Packing up in the start is terrible. XP for hero kills is nowhere near enough to be worth forsaking 2, or maybe even 3, lanes worth of creep exp. Experience points are the only currency in HotS and as such their value is supreme. If the enemies go 5man, go 1 1 3(for a 3 lane map) and have the 3-man group just continuously delay and run away. If you manage to keep that up for as little as one minute that's a huge advantage, even if one or two of them dies.

Yeah I was paying attention to a few games and it seems a group of 7 creeps is worth a little bit more than a hero kill at that level. Meaning for every lane of creep you allow to die with no hero there, you have to kill "more than a hero" to make up; and you have to kill 2 heroes to make up for a lane which THEY are farming and you are not...

[Deleted]

Objectives are the most important thing in this game, you can NEVER ignore an objective, ever.

This is a really terrible misconception. I had enough of people running in 3v5(or 5v5, but level 9 to enemy 10 etc) to disrupt the tribute capture, interrupt coin turn in or slow the temple down for five seconds. Objectives are indubitably important, but there are times when leaving them aside and focusing on other parts of the map is a good idea.

[Deleted]

I said 'never' because it is so rare that objectives will not take immediate priority that there's no point in trying to include the information, as once you play the game enough (hopefully) you will understand the cues.
Sending people 3v5 sounds like an absolutely terrible idea, contesting anything at all when a team has ults and your team does not, and at a number disadvantage at that.. that just sounds plain retarded, and I don't know the MMR you play it, maybe it works at yours, but at mine it does not and will not.

Why so aggressive? Don't get your panties in a bunch. You said "NEVER ever" and that's why I disputed that claim - because it's false. Why do you spend your entire post agreeing with me(that in fact you do not always, no matter the circumstances, run for the objective) only to throw a vague, thinly veiled ad hominem my way?

[Thelxi]

Soaking up lanes is very very important, however I would say that winning teamfights and then going around getting objectives is even more important. I play with that priority in mind, and I do pretty well. I soak when I can, but I will absolutely abandon a lane to make a difference in a teamfight because in the long run that pays off far more than a couple of waves.

[Nikkaszal]

The general meta is to have 1 pusher/specialist in a lane that does not immediately require contestation and/or is close to siege camp (ie bot lane in Temple, Hollow, Blackhearts etc) and the other four going back and forth between the other two.

You want your best pusher away from the first objective to shove down that towers/gate while the objective fight is happening, and possible taking mercs, while the rest of your team is doing business in top/mid.

[Lesane]

You pretty much need to have someone soaking every lane. You only leave your lane for objectives, and even then it might be viable to keep laning in certain cases. In Cursed Hollow for example you can just send 2 people to harass/stall the tribute while the rest keeps farming XP. The longer they can stall, the bigger the level advantage you'll have once they finally do take the tribute. Once you have a decent level advantage you might want to group up and look for a fight while the advantage is still yours. Other than that you just keep pushing lanes.

[Deleted]

I honestly didn't mean to come off as aggressive, I gave some convoluted information and it was really poorly worded.
Talking isn't my specialty unfortunately, and to put it bluntly I don't understand social cues very well.
I apologize.

Sorry for getting aggressive on my side as well, I get unnecessarily touchy on the internet.

You pretty much need to have someone soaking every lane. You only leave your lane for objectives, and even then it might be viable to keep laning in certain cases. In Cursed Hollow for example you can just send 2 people to harass/stall the tribute while the rest keeps farming XP. The longer they can stall, the bigger the level advantage you'll have once they finally do take the tribute. Once you have a decent level advantage you might want to group up and look for a fight while the advantage is still yours. Other than that you just keep pushing lanes.

Funny thing, I just finished a Cursed Hollow game as Azmodunk. We lost first 3 tributes - and took a few casualties each time - but despite all that we had a 2 level lead by by the time the curse hit thanks to being spread out and pushing all the time. When they tried to push using it we just obliterated them and cemented the advantage - even losing a fort to the golem we all somehow did not notice did nothing to even the odds.

Also, this match taught me how much I love facing Vikings on my Azmodunk. ^.^

[Nerraw]

Also, this match taught me how much I love facing Vikings on my Azmodunk. ^.^

Bad player then. You don't clump them up when facing AOE like that.

[Deleted]

Bad player then. You don't clump them up when facing AOE like that.

Yeah, he was bad. Kept his Vikings together nearly all game, not to mention team fights.

[Valedus]

It depends on your comp and enemy comp. If your team has both Nova and Zeratul, for instance, you probably want 1 person soaking in each lane and those 2 roaming for ganks. If the other team is deathballing, your team is better served soaking every lane and not dying. The not dying part is hard for a lot of people, I've noticed.

Part of the greatness of HOTS is that the game fluctuates so much depending on your comp and enemy comp. What your team's heroes are good at compared to the others. From my hundreds/thousands of hours in DOTA, that wasn't really the case.

Like Bovinity said, a great example is having 3 unnecessary hero deaths isn't worth delaying a tribute you won't have any chance of winning. Most maps early game the best strategy is to poke enemy heroes as much as you can, soak, and stay healthy/unused Well for the coming objective fight. Obviously, if an enemy is out of position you can get kills, but you get the point.

[Hand Banana]

IMO you go to the watchtower in mid with the whole team and try to ambush/land a quick early kill. Once first minions reach the gate everyone should be breaking off and going to lane and not missing out on any XP. If they are doing what OP is then its an easy kill ~2v5 in watchtower then break off and get full lane XP for a solid starting lead. Thats how it should work but again, with randoms in quick matches, people end up deathballing around with XP left on the table. If you play someone who does well in solo-lane then by all means stay at the open bottom or wherever lane if you don't have decent coordination, however I HATE seeing supports trying to solo lane while the team is 4v5ing.

[Lesane]

IMO you go to the watchtower in mid with the whole team and try to ambush/land a quick early kill. Once first minions reach the gate everyone should be breaking off and going to lane and not missing out on any XP. If they are doing what OP is then its an easy kill ~2v5 in watchtower then break off and get full lane XP for a solid starting lead. Thats how it should work but again, with randoms in quick matches, people end up deathballing around with XP left on the table. If you play someone who does well in solo-lane then by all means stay at the open bottom or wherever lane if you don't have decent coordination, however I HATE seeing supports trying to solo lane while the team is 4v5ing.

Or you can just skip the watch tower, let the enemies take it, be ready for lanes with full HP instead of depleted and then let one person steal the watch tower while laning is going on. Early game kills barely award any xp and you're most likely gonna get 1-2 max if you win the team fight at the towers.

[Hand Banana]

Or you can just skip the watch tower, let the enemies take it, be ready for lanes with full HP instead of depleted and then let one person steal the watch tower while laning is going on. Early game kills barely award any xp and you're most likely gonna get 1-2 max if you win the team fight at the towers.

You then give them an advantage depending on the map, like sky tower it makes fighting on the middle temple that spawns first difficult if you don't take it after the start since they have vision on your movement and you don't. If you do land a kill or two off the start then the enemy might be losing lane XP for not having people in lane or can get bullied early before their respawns get there, or at least force the enemies involved to fountain or back if they get too hurt. It really depends on your coordination to not overextend and be quick to get back to lanes after the initial engage, also on your comp if its strong early or not, which is a problem in quick matches usually.

[Mormolyce]

Same thing bothers me, if you're still hero balling after the first objective is capped (if you even bother with it) then you're doing it wrong.

1) Take central watch tower [optional], outcome of teamfight here largely irrelevant so trade freely if you like.
2) Lane and wait for first objective.
3) If they're still hero balling around your lanes looking for a gank, just retreat behind your walls and laugh at them while your allies get an easy push on their respective lanes.
4) Take first objective.
5) Repeat 2-4 until you're high enough to take camps (varies by hero).

At this point the midgame starts.

[Lesane]

You then give them an advantage depending on the map, like sky tower it makes fighting on the middle temple that spawns first difficult if you don't take it after the start since they have vision on your movement and you don't. If you do land a kill or two off the start then the enemy might be losing lane XP for not having people in lane or can get bullied early before their respawns get there, or at least force the enemies involved to fountain or back if they get too hurt. It really depends on your coordination to not overextend and be quick to get back to lanes after the initial engage, also on your comp if its strong early or not, which is a problem in quick matches usually.

Dunno, more often than not my teams just ignore that watch tower on Sky Temple unless they can get it for free and just cap it right before the temples activate.