"Chrissie Hynde was right about rape. Now feminists want to silence her"

[Endus]

Or to make them selves look pretty? Do you even listen to what you are saying? There are numerous ways of being pretty without running around in your bare ass. If you dress to look sexy then you dress to impress, if someone els is impressed and you don't want other people to be impressed, you should not dress for that. Its not rocket science.

I really don't get this archconservative clothes shaming. It's ridiculous when fundamentalist Muslims or Christians do it to anyone who exposes anything but their hands/face, and it's just as ridiculous with you, here. It's exactly the same thing. The only difference is in degree, and it was never the degree that was the issue.

Everything is coercion then. Men making themselves look attractive is coercive. So according to what you just said if I wear anything other than a burlap sack with hair unwashed for 3 months, it's rape because I'm trying to coerce women. And furthermore women wearing revealing clothes is rape to men because it's trying to attract men who normally wouldn't want to have sex with them.

Coercion isn't complicated. What you've described here clearly isn't coercion. I have no idea where you'd even get that impression, since nothing I said even suggested it.

[Rend Blackhand]

You're at highest risk when you're with male friends or your partner, in your home or their home. So...

So..... what?

Risk factor: Alcohol. It is common in rape situations. Solution - don't get blackout drunk. Never mind the current discussion, shouldn't be doing this at all.

Produce some facts about your claim please.

[Deleted]

There are a number of different descriptions of "pretty". For some, pretty is a modest sweater and jeans. Others, pretty is booty shorts and a tube top.

Again, it's an opinion of what makes somebody "pretty"

And just because you are impressed with somebody's looks does not mean that you should be driven to rape them.

I did not say that, stop making stuff up please. But if you do not want male attention you should not dress like you want male attention. And if you do dress for male attention and you get attention you should not scream rape, but rather go and figure out how to dress in a way that you are not bothered.

[purebalance]

I say it's not their -fault- if they get raped, because it's only the rapist out to do this sort of thing. They probably leave their house thinking 'Tonights the night I do this', whereas the girls will just be thinking 'I look hot in this short skirt and crop top, everyone will be so jealous!'

I wouldn't blame the girls at all, but it definitely doesn't -help- the situation, or the possibility that it could happen.

Do you walk down the street swinging your wallet saying 'Oh my I am so lost! Anyone know the way to the train station?' then go down a dark alley and expect not to be mugged? You might not be planning it, but if you go around looking vulnerable, you will more than likely get attacked. And to that extent you can get a fraction of blame for not being careful.

I'm pretty sure if I got killed while yelling racial slurs in Detroit they'd say it was my fault so yeah.....

[The Yeti]

So..... what?

Risk factor: Alcohol. It is common in rape situations. Solution - don't get blackout drunk. Never mind the current discussion, shouldn't be doing this at all.

Produce some facts about your claim please.

According to the RAINN.... Statistics based on a US Department of Justice study from 2009-2013.

Approximately 4/5 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.
82% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.
47% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.
25% are an intimate.
5% are a relative.

https://rainn.org/get-information/st...ault-offenders

[Crissi]

If I dress to "impress", its only to impress men that are of my taste. That doesnt give men who arent to my taste permission to violate my space and my body.

[purebalance]

I really don't get this archconservative clothes shaming. It's ridiculous when fundamentalist Muslims or Christians do it to anyone who exposes anything but their hands/face, and it's just as ridiculous with you, here. It's exactly the same thing. The only difference is in degree, and it was never the degree that was the issue.



Coercion isn't complicated. What you've described here clearly isn't coercion. I have no idea where you'd even get that impression, since nothing I said even suggested it.

Actually it is. Women dress the way they do to attract men. No other reason. I dress the way I do to attract men. No other reason. I work out to attract men. 90% of what we do as a society is to attract a mate. The way they dress is a form of coercion. It's trying to get men to want them where they normally wouldn't. You said verbal coercion is rape thus non verbal/visual coercion is as well.

[Deleted]

Produce some facts about your claim please.

http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/rape...petrators.aspx

Sexual violence may occur in any type of relationship, but most perpetrators of sexual assault are known to their victims. Among victims ages 18 to 29, two-thirds had a prior relationship with the offender. The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) reports that 6 in 10 rape or sexual assault victims said that they were assaulted by an intimate partner, relative, friend or acquaintance. A study of sexual victimization of college women showed that 9 out of 10 victims knew the person who sexually victimized them. [1] One research project found that 34 percent of women surveyed were victims of sexual coercion by a husband or intimate partner in their lifetime. [2]

[Endus]

Having difficulty reading again? I said, without raping her. All boys will be trying their best to get laid, and now you are shaming them for it for calling them rapist.

If they're pressuring a girl to have sex, they're trying to rape her. That's literally what rape is. You can't say "no, I meant raping without rape", because it's still rape.

And no, you're grossly confused as to how "all boys" act. You're describing rapists, not most men. Normal men are interested in sex, but they aren't going to rape a girl to get it.

No they raped you according to your stance. You didn't want to have sex with them and they are trying to coerce you to do so.

That isn't coercion. I really don't understand the desire to be willfully obtuse over this issue.

[Xaelai]

I'm pretty sure if I got killed while yelling racial slurs in Detroit they'd say it was my fault so yeah.....

Not your fault, but you would have violated some common sense and put yourself in a position of being in danger.

[Lovecrafts]

3rd time I've seen this thread created today, hoping the mods allow this one to stay open so we can have some important conversation....

It's not "victim blaming", it's holding people accountable for being part of the situations that got them hurt in the first place.

Go alone to a party, get wasted and high on drugs while wearing a revealing outfit, in a bad part of town? Chances are you're going to get raped, and it's partly going to be your fault for your own actions. This isn't to say that the rapist gets cut any slack. What they did is horrible, but to say that it's not the victim's fault partly for making a series of horrible choices is just being disingenuous.

Teach common sense to these people. It's like everyone got stupid and society is just A-OK with coddling them and not holding them accountable anymore.
It's like an idiot walking out into the middle of a busy intersection at night dressed all in black and then being "shocked" that a car hit them, then everyone gathering around them and saying "you did NOTHING wrong, none of your choices were poor!". You think that person is going to learn from that? You think the observers or the people who hear to story are going to learn it's a stupid idea to go into a busy intersection at night dressed all in black? No, because society has told them that no matter what choices they make, if something bad happens to them it's not their fault.

[The Yeti]

I did not say that, stop making stuff up please. But if you do not want male attention you should not dress like you want male attention. And if you do dress for male attention and you get attention you should not scream rape, but rather go and figure out how to dress in a way that you are not bothered.

So if a women wants to dress in a way that makes them happy, makes them feel pretty, they should just accept that men will go after them and force themselves upon them in a sexual way?

That's a pretty monstrous point of view.

[Andus]

I would say that all men should simply be locked away. We simply cannot trust men to not be evil.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Again; Studies show that more conservatively dressed women are more likely to be victims. So, your "belief" is wrong.

This is what I've heard as well.

Women that dress risque are naturally more assertive and domineering. They're significantly less likely to submit to a rapist, and even less likely to remain quiet after the fact.

Rapists are generally known to target insecure, conservative, quiet, modest, non-social types of girls. Which makes sense, they're much more likely to submit because of their innate fears of confrontation, as well as less likely to bring attention to it after the fact.

Just because a woman wears something sexy doesn't mean that it's an invitation. This is proven over and over again by the types of women who are rape victims... the quiet, modest, non-social girls who don't stand out.

[Deleted]

I really don't get this archconservative clothes shaming. It's ridiculous when fundamentalist Muslims or Christians do it to anyone who exposes anything but their hands/face, and it's just as ridiculous with you, here. It's exactly the same thing. The only difference is in degree, and it was never the degree that was the issue.



Coercion isn't complicated. What you've described here clearly isn't coercion. I have no idea where you'd even get that impression, since nothing I said even suggested it.

Where the hell do you come off in calling it "cloth shaming"!? I'm not shaming cloths, but you seem to be saying that the way you cloth your self is not an for of expressing your self, and in the same breath you say that "they want to feel pretty". That is delusional, if you express yourself in a certain way then you will get responses that will correlate with how you express yourself. It doesn't matter if you cloth yourself as a nun or as a whore, you get treated like you are dressed. And no, this is not sexist, it is exactly the same for men.

[Xaelai]

Why does this shit even get posted? Not a single person is saying don't be smart about what you do. However, the people who are not complete scumbags don't blame the victim if something does happen. There is no justification for rape, in anyway.

Hint: There's a difference between blaming the victim and telling the truth about things the victim did that contributed to the crime that took place.

That's something you can't seem to get into your thick skull, unfortunately.

[Endus]

Actually it is. Women dress the way they do to attract men. No other reason. I dress the way I do to attract men. No other reason. I work out to attract men. 90% of what we do as a society is to attract a mate. The way they dress is a form of coercion. It's trying to get men to want them where they normally wouldn't. You said verbal coercion is rape thus non verbal/visual coercion is as well.

Seriously.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coercion

You're using the word incorrectly. I really shouldn't have to link a dictionary definition.

[The Yeti]

Teach common sense to these people. It's like everyone got stupid and society is just A-OK with coddling them and not holding them accountable anymore.
It's like an idiot walking out into the middle of a busy intersection at night dressed all in black and then being "shocked" that a car hit them, then everyone gathering around them and saying "you did NOTHING wrong, none of your choices were poor!". You think that person is going to learn from that? You think the observers or the people who hear to story are going to learn it's a stupid idea to go into a busy intersection at night dressed all in black? No, because society has told them that no matter what choices they make, if something bad happens to them it's not their fault.

You are again assuming rape victims are putting themselves in bad situations. Why is it then that friends commit nearly half of all rapes? How is being with a friend unsafe?

Being around people is not equivalent to playing in a crowded street

[Deleted]

It's sad that you're serious.

Its said that people are oblivious to the fact that how you dress is a form of self expression.

[Rend Blackhand]

According to the RAINN.... Statistics based on a US Department of Justice study from 2009-2013.

Approximately 4/5 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.
82% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.
47% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.
25% are an intimate.
5% are a relative.

https://rainn.org/get-information/st...ault-offenders

Well go on then, let's hear your solution.