Help on Mythic Mannoroth

[Deleted]

We have two nights on this boss

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1795&wipes=1

and

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1795&wipes=1

Issue is that we get random deaths from time to time from the 100 mechanics, but that is understandable. Most of the time we reach P3 with 0 or 1 BR.

But when we do reach P3 we seem to pretty much instantly die the moment he does gaze and shadowforce. Can anyone identify what exactly we are doing wrong?

[Gardiff]

A cursory look at the final phase logs show some consistent findings.

1) Your wrath targets are cleaving each other to death in p3 right as you enter it. Now this might be part of your strat (to kill off the two melee wraths) so I can't tell for sure, but this shouldn't happen. DEFINETLY NOT before anything happens into phase 3 since your melee are dying before anything actually happens in the phase. Now if your goal is to kill them off and rez them, just disregard this. If not, tell them to gtfo of the raid with where you have everyone stacked because this shouldn't be the cause of wipes. We see this happen to at least one person in wipes 20, 24, 29, 30 as soon as you enter phase 3. Considering you are using your rez's previous to this, I can't imagine you are purposefully sacrificing wraths in the last phase so you have to reiterate this point heavily.

2) Overflowing fel energy - no one should really ever die to this (especially dps/healers). This means your raid was standing near the pillar guldan is on in the last phase. Again, most of these deaths happened before any real ability happened so perhaps you were transitioning into phase 3 when this occured. STILL, this is never an excuse to die and you need to make sure your raid moves far from that pillar to the stack point for p3 when it is appropriate to do so.

3) Gazes - Alright so I don't know how exactly you are doing gazes, but this is one you just have to get a good feel for. It appears you are 2 tanking which is how we have always done it and so I will tell you how we do it. Essentially we have the OT (i.e. not tanking manno) always pick the farthest out gaze because the tank is not eligible for getting feared and cannot have wrath and can easily soak one gaze by themselves no problem. Make sure you emphasize whichever free tank you have to get one consistent gaze (we chose the gaze that happens to be closest to the edge of the platform = for the OT and that can vary wildly depending on who gets feared but there is never perfect overlap so he/she should be able to JUST get in one gaze). For the other two gazes we have 2 people assigned per gaze before the pull - typically we put healers on this duty as well as a class like a hunter.

So in essence 5 soakers per set of fears. Now if wrath goes onto one of those 4 soakers (remember tank can't have wrath), then we have up to 2 backups for each group. Thus 9 total people are there. Generally the backups are called on-the-fly and not really assigned since you have PLENTY of time between the wraths and first fears to figure out who can go in what fear. You can get screwed and have one group of 2 BOTH get feared and so you either have to adjust for this by calling it out during the pull, or wing it. It is rare enough that it happens that it isn't a big enough cause for wipes because empowered gaze only does ~900-950k so in reality you only NEED 1 soaker per gaze. We just put two on each in case one gets feared. You could put 3 to completely negate the fact but then you risk the pools getting to big. You could just put people who preemptively pop something on the fears so that they can end up soaking anyway even if feared (like shadow priest dispersion which CAN be cast during fear) so keep things like this in mind.

In essence with fears, you want assigned soakers before the pull and be ready to change it up depending on who gets wrath (because you don't want a wrath person to help soak the fear). The fears are also where you want to drop SLT/Barrier for in the last phase since there isn't much use for them in the last phase. If you have a class like a shadow priest that can cast even during the fear for dispersion, that is perfect and you can assign them solo but remember you will have to be calling this actively out and it can be messy. Having two soakers per each gaze (except for the tank gaze which is by him/herself) nearly eliminates all of the problems with the exception of the fact if both soakers get gaze but then you still have the other two people who had one of the other gazes who can simply hop in one of the two. The point is don't create a massive puddle on the first one.

On the second gaze it is harder since positioning changes, people are more scattered, and the tanks can't get in them. For these second gazes we generally had everyone free-for-all get in any gaze they could because 1) the boss will die soon 2) we have a big healer cooldown to sit in the pool for the second empowered shadowforce which follows.

Third gazes (if you get them) shouldn't even bother to be soaked because if the boss isn't dead here within the next 10-15 seconds, you are probably going to be wiping.

The one thing that can be irritating with gazes is that the feared targets end up so close together that the fear target itself soaks another fear target. There is not much you can do about this apart from saying 'spread loosely but close' at the first stack up point when you get in that phase. MAKE SURE YOUR SOAKERS UNDERSTAND to not stand in two circles if they can help it. This is crucial.

4) Emp shadowforce - Simply put you are losing people to this. It probably results from a multitude of factors such as: 1) boss positioning 2) people not running immediately when the RL calls to start running so they get pushed back 10 yards at the first 1-2 seconds and thus will not be making it on the platform 3) personal positioning (i.e. poor decision making) 4) not utilizing pools if it is appropriate to do so.

If people are dying to damage in the empowered shadowforce due to wraths then this can be a tough situation (which is WHY people sometimes sacrifice melee here). Generally we let the raid run down the middle of the platform from where manno is tanked. The healer wrath target generally stands within the group unless if it is a goblin (like me) or a druid (basically classes who can cheat and stay on the platform longer). The two melee / ranged try to split up on both sides and / or use the pools we generated on the first fear (which we personally spawn on one side of the platform for the first fears). In general if you are a more capable class with empowered shadowforce (i.e. rogues, warriors, mages, warlocks to an extent, druids, monks, hunters to an extent) and you have wrath, you go at an angle that puts you at a more disadvantaged point relative to the raid so you don't cleave them down during the shadowforce because those above classes have above easy escape mechanics that lets them be pushed off a bit to the side. Apart from that we always jumped and used a stampeding roar for each but you cannot lose people to this.

Gaze never lines up with shadowforce instantaneously. You always have ~10-20 seconds or so between the two to move into position and be ready for the shadowforce in the final phase.

Remember to tell your melee they still can't hover to where the tank is with empowered shadow force or they will die from overflowing fel energy.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the response. Just to clarify, the melee are dying as we kill em off and try to rez them. I think that's how we end up with most of the deaths from pillar thingy.

But anyway, for the tanking tip you mentioned in helping soak; how well does it align with glaive combo? If its too close then you don't really wanna risk it?

[Gardiff]

Thanks for the response. Just to clarify, the melee are dying as we kill em off and try to rez them. I think that's how we end up with most of the deaths from pillar thingy.

But anyway, for the tanking tip you mentioned in helping soak; how well does it align with glaive combo? If its too close then you don't really wanna risk it?

The first one never lines up with the glaive combo. Even a DK who you might worry about lack of running speed can easily do it. YOU CAN do it with the second one as well it just will have to be the other tank because of the way the abilities line up (I was looking through one of our logs to verify this). Personally we don't have our tank do the second set of fears because we tend to create a gigantic puddle and deal with it for the short amount of time left in the encounter. That may or may not work for you.

But yeah if you are going to kill them off then that would explain that.

[Tehterokkar]

Just don't sac the melee wraths. Have them go almost sideways during the Shadowforce so they don't keep hitting the same person.

[Chewtoy]

Grats Lyuben

[Deleted]

Grats Lyuben

Not for me... our guild literally has like 12 vanquisher users and we haven't got a vanquisher drop from Gorefiend in the last 5 kills so 5 of us don't have it... but we are now skipping him so RIP pants.

And now we are doing progression on Archimonde which is ever fun.

[cFortyfive]

... our guild literally has like 12 vanquisher

No worries any decent raidroster does or should have so many

[Summer]

If I can borrow your thread a bit, I have a pretty idiotic question about mythic Manno.

Namely is there an addon that marks the Wrath targets consistently with the same markers? So for example healer always gets cross etc. We haven't done much on this yet but on our P2 attempts the Wrath marks would sometimes go "correctly" and sometimes completely randomly and I'm not sure how many addons are trying to do it at the same time (DBM and BW for sure, what of Exorsus?) and which one does what I want it to do.

So yeah would make it faster if we could say that "blue mark always goes to blue marker" but atm blue mark can be on any of the 5 Wrath targets and can't very well sit a melee away from the boss so any ideas on this?

And again this is likely a really stupid question but I'm not running with a lot of sleep here!

[Deleted]

If I can borrow your thread a bit, I have a pretty idiotic question about mythic Manno.

Namely is there an addon that marks the Wrath targets consistently with the same markers? So for example healer always gets cross etc. We haven't done much on this yet but on our P2 attempts the Wrath marks would sometimes go "correctly" and sometimes completely randomly and I'm not sure how many addons are trying to do it at the same time (DBM and BW for sure, what of Exorsus?) and which one does what I want it to do.

So yeah would make it faster if we could say that "blue mark always goes to blue marker" but atm blue mark can be on any of the 5 Wrath targets and can't very well sit a melee away from the boss so any ideas on this?

And again this is likely a really stupid question but I'm not running with a lot of sleep here!

I tried creating a WA for it, but ended up giving up. We ended up just ignoring the marks and have the melee and ranged call out the spot they were going to take.

[Roggendorf]

Bigwigs automatically assigns markers to the five Wrath targets. X, circle (front), moon, square (back), triangle for healer off with tank or raid.

So no need for any WA. Put markers so melee can reach hitbox from back.

Keep it simple. Have 1 person ready to calmly call out soak order based on wrath targets and GG.

[Keashaa]

One little question:
Does the damage multiplier caused by the Gripping Shadows debuff only apply to the damage you get from soaking the Wrath of Gul'dan or does it also increase the damage from Shadowforce? The tooltip ( http://www.wowhead.com/spell=186350/gripping-shadows ) states it only applies to Gripping Shadows but we've seen 120k ticks from Shadowforce in P2 though it should only hit for ~42000 Shadow damage ( http://www.wowhead.com/spell=181841/shadowforce ).

Anyone can help please?

[Deleted]

One little question:
Does the damage multiplier caused by the Gripping Shadows debuff only apply to the damage you get from soaking the Wrath of Gul'dan or does it also increase the damage from Shadowforce? The tooltip ( http://www.wowhead.com/spell=186350/gripping-shadows ) states it only applies to Gripping Shadows but we've seen 120k ticks from Shadowforce in P2 though it should only hit for ~42000 Shadow damage ( http://www.wowhead.com/spell=181841/shadowforce ).

Anyone can help please?

Last tick always hit for 120k+ in P2, damage increases as it stacks.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=181841
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=181841

[Keashaa]

Okay, thanks...
So the tooltip is completely wrong :-(

[Deleted]

Okay, thanks...
So the tooltip is completely wrong :-(

Tooltip is just missing "this ability stacks", but you can see this in your raid frames, nothing strange going on at all.